Unfavorable network reviews being deleted

animesoup

Hello,

I left some negative feedback on a network, and it seems that whenever the admin of the network spots it, it's gone..

The review was legitimate.. Where did it go?

While I'm here, please update irc quotes Very Happy

JohnB · Posted: Jul 20, 2004 2:29pm Post subject:

The admin proved the comments were fake, and the history to your diagreement. Please keep them off SearchIRC.

JohnB
SearchIRC.com staff

animesoup · Posted: Jul 20, 2004 4:13pm Post subject:

So if someone leaves unfavorable comments on my network, all I have to do is lie about my policy and it gets deleted?

Sweet! If thats the case, I too, should start logging private messages and let my network split, because anytime someone leaves a review saying about these bad things, it gets deleted! 'My network doesnt split, and I don't log PMs'.. Okay!

Maybe you'd want to hear an audio clip of the admin saying private messages are logged? Said during the 'spring mixx session' to a caller claiming an admin was harassing him through PMs.. Either he was lying then, or he's lying now.. Either way, he lied.

You can't dispute fact. Fact is, the network splits, he said himself private messages are logged, and I could care less what he said about my past, those are FACTS. Regardless of what happened.

Just last night, the network split 3 times.. 3 TIMES!? If he ever fixes the problem, he has the right to say its fixed, but to get the comment deleted while the network still has problems is just wrong.

He also noted that he DOES join newly created channels that decide to use botserv.. because of the threat of 'warez'.. What does warez have to do with botserv?! And how would he know you are using botserv unless he's logging?

From his forums..

ed · Posted: Jul 20, 2004 10:20pm Post subject:

I agree in that type of issue. Unless it was completely bashing the network, or posting something completely off-mark, I don't see any reason to deleting a review.

That said, I did not have anything to do with the decision of that matter, nor have I seen the evidance that was provided to SearchIRC staff.

katsklaw · Posted: Jul 20, 2004 10:33pm Post subject:

<IMHO>

I don't view the user remarks section as a useful tool to start with .. it invited SIRC to be a mediator in petty arguements and opens several doors to start flamewars and he said/she said BS. This very thread is a good example of my point.

All logs can be forged .. and I can get any of my good friends to lie for me. So it's one persons word against another.

</IMHO>

animesoup · Posted: Jul 21, 2004 2:43am Post subject:

Logs can easily be forged, I know that all too well. I seldom rely on logs unless they are first-hand.. Which is pointless, because who can I give them to besides myself?

I never use logs to mediate an argument on IRC, its pointless. Even if you have them first hand, noone will believe them unless they have a copy irst hand too.

In this debate, I left a review explaining how this certain IRC network logs PMs, watches youe channel and has a problem with splitting.. I may have been KLined from the server, but it was unrelated to the review. I was klined because I run my own server, and I didnt want to link with his server.

This is not any part of the disagreement here, though. The review was on the network, using facts.. The only thing a '!@#$ this network, !@#$ this guy, bla bla bla' review is going to do is make the author look like a moron. I stated facts, and the facts were silenced. I have since, talked to the admin of the network on fairly neutral terms. The problem arises when a legitimate review gets wiped out..

Negative reviews are good sometimes, because loyal visitors dont want to state the truth. It provides people with an opportunity to see what regular people think of the network.

If he were to fix the problems next week and ask for the review to be removed, perfectly fine. Very understandable. However, the network still splits, and the review doesnt show up..

JohnB · Posted: Jul 21, 2004 7:25am Post subject:

animesoup, its quite clear there is a disagreement between you and the network admin.
SearchIRC is not the place to flame it out.
I did review what you posted, and the edivance the admin give me to prove you posted those comments to get at him, and the evidance was in his favour.

I ask again, please keep it off SearchIRC.

Feel free to post a comment about a network, good or bad, and there is no rule against it nor would staff remove it upon request unless the admin could prove that those comments were fake or used to flame.

Thanks for your time,

JohnB
SearchIRC.com staff

JohnB · Posted: Jul 21, 2004 7:28am Post subject:

And kat,
I totaly agree, requests for stuff to be removed have become quite popular, as more and more people flame/post crap about networks in the comments section.
I'd be happy to see that moderated like everything else is.

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 696

animesoup, I saw the complaint against your post, but I did not investigate the complaint, nor did I remove your post. Jason has been pretty busy, and may not read the boards or see you in the chan. The best way to reach him is to email jason@searchirc.com

That said, network reviews are SUPPOSED to relate both positive and negative information about a network.

Our general rule is, if its a REVIEW of the network, even a very negative review, its legitimate and should stay. If the network administration asks us to remove it, we don't. Rather, we invite them to respond. I find that the ways the administration responds to negative comments is a good indicator of the network itself - is the admin immature, do they deride, threaten, or engage in ad hominum attacks against the person who initially posted? If thats the way they treat users on our boards, you can bet that's the way they treat users on their network, too. On the other hand, no matter how negative a review is, if the admin shows genuine interest and wants to resolve the issue, or says "these are our rules, you broke them and paid the price", then I know that network has a fair and decisive management, and the negative review is probably sour grapes from someone who got deservedly slapped into their place.

If someone posts a personal attack or the statements are slanderous (negative AND false), then its a whole other ball game. Such posts (no matter who posts them) are against our terms of service and they are removed as soon as we see them, or they are reported to us.

If you think your post should not have been deleted, then talk to Jason about it. He's not shy about stating why he did the deed, or overturning one of the helpers if he thinks we were wrong. ;)

animesoup · Posted: Jul 21, 2004 12:34pm Post subject:

I'm not going to drag Jason into this.. He's already got too much shit to do without dealing with debates on sirc policy.. the fact of the matter is, it was removed, even though it shouldnt have been. It was a genuine review.

It just takes a lot out of the whole SIRC reviews idea. If someone can post a legitimate review and have it removed, why do SIRC reviews even exist?

Oh, and just to make sure you're all informed on this. The admin of the network I speak of doesnt know this thread exists.. This thread isnt really about the review itself too much, or I would have said the name of this network in an effort to slander them.. Thats not what I'm trying to achieve here. The review was legitimate. I will admit, I was trying to get back at the admin. I will, however, state that the content of my review was fact. I made sure to use all legitimate info so it wouldnt get deleted.. But WHY? It just gets deleted because the network admin can lie in return? I'm not saying he lied, I'm not sure what he said. But I have used the network for the last 3 months, before it was on SIRC.. The network has always had a problem with splitting..

Nothing in that review was false, I made damn sure of that.

There is no time period on this.. When Jason has time to look at the forum, I believe he'll see this and make his own judgement on it. It's not like I want the review back up there, I just want to submit the fact that my review was unfairly deleted.

And damnit, get a moderator for IRC quotes!

preacher · none Joined: 26 Jan 2004 Posts: 30

I would say that if you feel that a point of sirc policy needs to be sorted out then email jason, or drop it.

You feel that what you posted was correct and should have remained on the networks comments page.

JohnB saw correspondance from teh Admin which made him believe that your post was not within sirc policy.

I would say let it rest or speak to Jason as in the end only he can set and clearup policy here..

I always find a swift resolution a simple answer, and being honest you don't further your case just going over it here,

shalom

Preacher

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 696

Animesoup, first, Jason IS SearchIRC. He owns it, he makes policy and the decisions on anything are always his. If you have a problem, don't worry about his workload, BOTHER HIM about it.

What bothers ME is your statement: "I will admit, I was trying to get back at the admin."

SearchIRC doesn't want to be used as a tool for revenge. Period. Post a review of another network. But not one where you are admittedly prejudiced and seeking revenge.

animesoup · Posted: Jul 21, 2004 7:41pm Post subject:

w00t · Posted: Jul 21, 2004 7:45pm Post subject:

I tend to find that most people dont even post reviews, and those that do are often the loyal ones. I'm not going to name names (lets just say it was a net in the second half of the top 100) and it had around 5-6 reviews. I knew each person who wrote that review, and 4 of them were ops or admins!

I mean, seriously, what's the point?

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 696

Not all comments are reviews. Many posts are welcome statements from the admins and opers, information about the network, or questions from users. I realize you only see those posted on networks you are familiar with, but there are over 2000 networks listed and we get several dozen new posts every day. So far its running about 50/50 positive/negative, with very very little spam, attacks, or other problems. They appear to be honest reviews, pointing out both good and bad things about the network.