Anope development not very open

dmb · none Joined: 08 Oct 2006 Posts: 8

I don't mean to start a flame war, in fact, I would like to just help the anope people have a better development process. I came to the anope network, irc.anope.org hoping to contribute possible fixes for the inspircd11 module for anope. So figuring that #anope wasn't the place to discuss this, as the topic was "Welcome to #anope - Anope Support Only - Stable: 1.6.5 - Development: 1.7.19 - Read the rules or die: http://anope.org/ircrules.php || http://www.rafb.net/paste/ || RTFM is *NOT* a radio station!!"
So therefor, I look for the anope development channel. I join #anope-devel thinking that would be the correct place to discuss this, A few minutes after my join, I see this in the channel window:

Potter · none Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 2

I think you're overreacting quite a bit, actually. It appears that #anope-devel is strictly for their developers, and that is something you have to respect. You can't blame them for immediately banning you from the channel when they are trying to keep it only for developers.

If you really wanted to help in the first place, I don't think this should deter you. It wasn't a personal attack. It was a channel rule for #anope-devel.

dmb · none Joined: 08 Oct 2006 Posts: 8

Potter · none Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 2

That's something you need to ask in #anope.

dmb · none Joined: 08 Oct 2006 Posts: 8

I did ask, they pointed me to bugs.whatever and the modules site. That isn't a very discussion related medium if you ask me.

ircmojo · Posted: Jun 30, 2007 2:33pm Post subject:

Since when has it been required to be on the development team of any Open Source Project to contribute? Not to mention that Open Source is NOT the same as Open Development. There are thousands of Open Source projects that are NOT Open Development.

Anope has a forum for users to contribute, they have a bugs reporting system for you to contrbute, they have module and features forums for you to contribute. Why is gaining entry into a silly channel so important for you to contribute? and what about NOT being in the channel stops you from contributing? Do you think that simply being in a channel will get you commit level access? I bet not. They even have a wiki and development API online for you to use, which is alot more than many other Open Source projexcts offer, what more do you want?

It seems to me that you are more worried about being in their development channel than actually contributing anything.

Just make your changes that you wish to share, make a diff patch and submit it. I know several other users that have contributed to Anope without being in some channel or even on the official team. Not to mention that such changes have been submitted by hundreds of coders thousands of times across thousands of other Open Source projects. Do you think that every code snipet in Atheme was submitted by an "official developer"? how about IRCServices? How about Bahamut, Unreal, Inspircd? All of those mentioned projects have code in them somewhere that was submitted by normal everyday users such as yourself. Hell, Atheme is like 4th generation bastard code(IRCServices, cygnus, shrike, atheme). Why must you be different?

Development questions *CAN* be asked in #Anope not to mention on the forum. So what is the REAL issue here?

nenolod · Idler Joined: 23 Jan 2004 Posts: 326 Location: A box!

the closed development model that Anope uses is a workflow they learned from Epona, which they learned from IRCServices.

there is a difference between open source and open projects. releasing your source does not make you an open project.

most ircservices-based projects use the closed development model. sirv, being the worst offender.

in my opinion it is a flawed model, but i think most things are flawed in ircservices and it's derivitives (anope, epona, etc), a detail that i do not wish to clarify here because i do not want to start a flamewar. basically, in my opinion they do everything backwards, and atheme-services was designed with "what would ircservices never ever do" in mind...

closed development models can work in some cases, but i think that it has become obsolescent for ircservices projects in many ways, as the community has learned of the community development model and therefore has come to expect it out of all irc projects.

anope probably stays this way because they feel that it is the best way to accomplish their goals, what you should do is demonstrate that there are better ways to do so. Smile

ircmojo · Posted: Jul 01, 2007 8:08am Post subject:

well said nenolod, but I'd like to emphasize that Open Source vs Open Development is not IRC specific, there are thousands of other non-IRC related projects that are closed to the general public.

I believe that it's a type of quality control and just because a development team doesnt allow you into their uber-secret development meetings doesn't mean that they aren't interested in your ideas or your help. It just means that they wish to reserve all the final decisions for themselves as to which direction the project is to go.

I also believe that just jumping in and helping where you can is a good way to becoming a developer or other team member because you are showing that you are truely interested in the project it's self and not your status on the project.

ircmojo · Posted: Jul 01, 2007 8:47am Post subject:

GeniusDex · Lurker Joined: 16 Aug 2003 Posts: 150

First of all, i'd like to say that it's perfectly fine to note anything about the development of Anope in #anope. That topic-text over there is mainly for the people who try to ask questions for UnrealIRCd in our support room (god knows why). The #anope-devel channel is purely a staff channel. where we do discuss stuff that not everyone has to know or influence (details about our project hosting for example).

If people want to help us with providing patches or want to discuss some development details, they are free to talk to us in #anope about this so we can discuss what we (as the development team) think about it. We might ask you to post your patches at the bugtracker because that allows us to keep an eye on what has been committed yet and what not.

For nenolod: can you give some concrete examples of our closed development model, as opposed to your open development model? (more than one please)

SkaterStuff · Lurker Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 156

and why not join there forum. im a member there as well and alot of guys there help with the script.

Mestara · none Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 8

nenolod · Idler Joined: 23 Jan 2004 Posts: 326 Location: A box!

Jobe · Posted: Jul 02, 2007 4:01pm Post subject:

Joinging in = having discussion

Not feeling like discussion = not joining in

So why did you join in if you didnt want to?

Sorry if I sound a lil rude there just curious is all.

nenolod · Idler Joined: 23 Jan 2004 Posts: 326 Location: A box!