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nocturnal
none
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 3
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 Posted: Mar 02, 2007 7:28am Post subject: |
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| i use hybrid because it has ssl support and is simple compared to unreal for example, also i'm just replying here to get my one post so i can create threads, that must be the dumbest rule i've ever seen on a message board |
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FBI
Guru
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 1494
Location: Federation Of Bored IRC'ers
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| Posted: Mar 02, 2007 10:13pm Post subject: |
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| nocturnal wrote: | | i use hybrid because it has ssl support and is simple compared to unreal for example, also i'm just replying here to get my one post so i can create threads, that must be the dumbest rule i've ever seen on a message board |
If you post......why register? |
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PingBad
Guru
Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 2031
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Mar 03, 2007 2:58am Post subject: |
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| nocturnal wrote: | | also i'm just replying here to get my one post so i can create threads, that must be the dumbest rule i've ever seen on a message board |
There had to be a compromise between allowing fresh users to post topics (which, 85% of the time would be pure spam) or have the 1-post-before-topic rule (which would inevitably result in collateral damage)... take your pick as to which option would have been better from an Administrative point of view |
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ircmojo
Lurker
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 215
Location: $HOME sweet $HOME
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| Posted: Mar 03, 2007 6:33am Post subject: |
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perhaps a side by side comparison from a source less likely to say their own personal favorite.
Like h.t.t.p_://_en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_IRCds
Take out the extra characters I had to use to get around te "new users can't post URLs" thing. |
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GeniusDex
Lurker
Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Posts: 150
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ircmojo
Lurker
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 215
Location: $HOME sweet $HOME
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| Posted: Mar 03, 2007 8:43am Post subject: |
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thank you  |
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godlkwrth
none
Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Apr 03, 2007 7:57pm Post subject: |
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Hybrid
-------------
Advantages:
o SSL-links
o Zip-links
o Mature code base
o Even balance of power (opers and admins don't have an incredible amount of power)
o Ability to handle a large amount of users (more than 1024)
o No extraneous user or channel modes (i.e. that unreal has)
o Links with ratbox, csircd
Disadvantages:
o None (This is one of the best ircds out there)
Unreal
----------------
Advantages:
o Easy to configure (supposedly, but is this really a good thing?)
Disadvantages:
o Laggy (most likely due to a large amount of overhead)
o Only links with Unreal
o Only supports 1024 clients by default (increasing the amount requires special kernel configuration) |
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PingBad
Guru
Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 2031
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Apr 03, 2007 11:02pm Post subject: |
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| godlkwrth wrote: | Hybrid
-------------
Advantages:
o SSL-links
o Zip-links
o Mature code base
o Even balance of power (opers and admins don't have an incredible amount of power)
o Ability to handle a large amount of users (more than 1024) |
If the kernel has a file descriptor limit of 1024, then thats the total amount of sockets open to all apps on the box, not just an IRCd | Quote: | | o No extraneous user or channel modes (i.e. that unreal has) |
To each their own | Quote: | o Links with ratbox, csircd
Disadvantages:
o None (This is one of the best ircds out there) |
Only in your opinion | Quote: | Unreal
----------------
Advantages:
o Easy to configure (supposedly, but is this really a good thing?) |
If you read the documentation to a given product, its easy to configure that product. Is it Unreal's fault for having such good documentation? | Quote: | Disadvantages:
o Laggy (most likely due to a large amount of overhead) |
Prove it | Quote: |
o Only links with Unreal
o Only supports 1024 clients by default (increasing the amount requires special kernel configuration) |
Unreal can support as many fd's as the box its running on |
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nenolod
Idler
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 333
Location: A box!
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| Posted: Apr 04, 2007 12:04am Post subject: |
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| godlkwrth wrote: |
o Laggy (most likely due to a large amount of overhead)
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Actually this is because of two things compounding each other:
1) Unreal only has a working implementation of select().
2) Unreal retains the classic 2.8 I/O loop. This makes your comparison unfair because Hybrid's I/O is based on Squid. Additionally, the 2.8 I/O loop is slow by design.
Unreal's overhead due to features is probably only a few microseconds in comparison to hybrid IRCds.
| godlkwrth wrote: |
o Only supports 1024 clients by default (increasing the amount requires special kernel configuration)
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Again, this is a side effect of using select(). If Unreal's USE_POLL support was fixed, this would not be an issue anymore.
--nenolod |
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GeniusDex
Lurker
Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Apr 04, 2007 7:37am Post subject: |
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| PingBad wrote: | | If you read the documentation to a given product, its easy to configure that product. Is it Unreal's fault for having such good documentation? |
Actually, easiness of use doesn't come with documentation. If you had to do all calculations manually and enter the results in the program, it would not be easy to use even if the manual exactly gave you the steps needed for each calculation.
The real thing that makes something easy to use is the ability to do things without reading any documentation. Try and compare the configuration files for Unreal and Bahamut (1. . I am quite sure that about everyone (given they have no knowledge of either ircd yet) would be able to configure Bahamut faster than Unreal.
| nenolod wrote: | | If Unreal's USE_POLL support was fixed, this would not be an issue anymore. |
One problem there: it's not fixed. So that's really a moot point. It's like saying "a bike is really fast, if you equip it with 2 more wheels, an engine, and a chassis" |
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nenolod
Idler
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 333
Location: A box!
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| Posted: Apr 05, 2007 12:47pm Post subject: |
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| GeniusDex wrote: | | nenolod wrote: | | If Unreal's USE_POLL support was fixed, this would not be an issue anymore. |
One problem there: it's not fixed. So that's really a moot point. It's like saying "a bike is really fast, if you equip it with 2 more wheels, an engine, and a chassis" |
Well yes, I was implying that perhaps somebody could do some good and fix it. Oh wait, this is IRCd. Never mind. Guess that won't be happening, but I guess it also means that people will be pessimistic about it too.
Personally I think that the IRC protocol could make it for 10 more years if it wasn't for the fact that most IRCd coders are pessimistic and feel the need to waste their time arguing over pointless details, or better yet, agreeing yet never taking action to correct a problem because it's a competing product.
IRC as a protocol will never improve in general without cooperation, but that is hampered by the general pessimistic attitude of the development community at large... instead we will have a future of continued incompatible extensions due to the lack of will to cooperate.
This is why overall, IRCu is winning to the other IRCds despite the code still being fairly monolithic. They all work together and collaborate on the base design. Nowhere else in IRCd development is this seen on a regular basis. (By the way, I mean winning here as in actually getting stuff somewhat standardized, not as in popularity amongst admins.)
Even this post is in fact, an example of what is going wrong. Somebody identifies a problem, and somebody else points out that it is a problem instead of going "hey, it would be cool if somebody DID fix that". Thus, nothing gets done as the original person decides "screw it, I'll do something else with my time".
The simple fact is, if a bug in a competing product is fixed, everybody wins, even if they do not use that product, because IRC overall improves as a result.
--nenolod |
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Jobe
Idler
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 366
Location: Lurking in the shadows of some random channel!
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| Posted: Apr 06, 2007 6:09am Post subject: |
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| nenolod wrote: | | This is why overall, IRCu is winning to the other IRCds despite the code still being fairly monolithic. They all work together and collaborate on the base design. Nowhere else in IRCd development is this seen on a regular basis. (By the way, I mean winning here as in actually getting stuff somewhat standardized, not as in popularity amongst admins.) |
You mean standardized somewhat like the server to server protocol that several different IRCd's have managed to achieve and are as a result capable of linking to each other. I am of course talking about IRCd's such as ircd-ratbox and ircd-hybrid. Admitedly one came from the other but theyve still maintained and cooperated on the protocol keeping them compatible.
And to go one step further on that they prove that the compatibility is stable by using both on a huge network (which i shouldnt need to name) |
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nenolod
Idler
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 333
Location: A box!
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| Posted: Apr 06, 2007 6:32am Post subject: |
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| Jobe wrote: | | nenolod wrote: | | This is why overall, IRCu is winning to the other IRCds despite the code still being fairly monolithic. They all work together and collaborate on the base design. Nowhere else in IRCd development is this seen on a regular basis. (By the way, I mean winning here as in actually getting stuff somewhat standardized, not as in popularity amongst admins.) |
You mean standardized somewhat like the server to server protocol that several different IRCd's have managed to achieve and are as a result capable of linking to each other. I am of course talking about IRCd's such as ircd-ratbox and ircd-hybrid. Admitedly one came from the other but theyve still maintained and cooperated on the protocol keeping them compatible.
And to go one step further on that they prove that the compatibility is stable by using both on a huge network (which i shouldnt need to name) |
No, I mean standardized as in when they want to implement an extension to the client protocol, it is easier for them because they have more pull with the client authors than any other segment of the dev community.
I do not mean server-to-server compatibility. That is a very shortsighted view. Additionally, you missed the entire point because I can assure you that there is no collaboration between hybrid and ratbox, and that there will not be until Dianora and anfl get over themselves (which is why a fork happened to begin with).
(Note that some clients however, can be fully extended through scripting, such as Irssi. mIRC however, does not have that advantage, as scripting purely serves as a utility function -- e.g. it cannot entirely override the authentication sequence from a script.)
For future reference, when people say "IRC as a protocol", they clearly mean the client protocol. Server protocols are always referred to as their technical name, like TS6 or DALnet TS5 or InspIRCd 1.1 Tree-Spanning Protocol.
--nenolod |
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braindigitalis
Idler
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 443
Location: IRC
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| Posted: Apr 06, 2007 6:42am Post subject: |
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To join in this "discussion", in my opinion the best ircd is InspIRCd. I might be biased, being a developer of it, but why do i think its the best? Here's why:
- Newer versions support TS6-like server linking, seen in hybrid, charybdis, ratbox
- Tons of features, but youre not forced to use them, as theyre modules -- therefore you dont have 'overhead' pushed upon you.
- Features that other ircds charge for are free and work better
- High performance socket engines, epoll and kqueue as well as select which scale equally to more 'established' ircds such as ircu and ratbox.
- Proven track record on medium sized networks with >1024 users (see irc.barafranca.com, 3500 users on one inspircd server, or irc.chatspike.net, 1400 users on two inspircd servers)
- Works with atheme, anope, and ircservices and more
Well i could babble all day. Theres my well-founded opinion, bash it and comment on it all you like
I won't join in the argument over which of hybrid and unreal is better, but i will point out that stating that any ircd has no disadvantages is very short sighted (oh in case youre wondering, the disadvantage of inspircd is that it takes a fair amount of disk space and ram compared to other ircds). |
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daltocli
none
Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 7
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| Posted: May 30, 2007 7:01am Post subject: |
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I personally prefer ircd-ratbox... ratbox-services compiled with it too... Seems a decent combination!
Plus it's something different from UnrealIRCd... I've worked with that too long - was time to try something else! |
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