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trystan
Eleet
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 756
Location: SLC Utah
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 Posted: Dec 20, 2005 2:04pm Post subject: Services |
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Okay since few of you wanted to have a thread to rant and go off about whom is better at services.. well here is the thread.. lets hear the points form people as to why they think the services they use is better then the other ones out there..
Lets not have a "cause its the best".. lets have some real reasons |
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FBI
Guru
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 1494
Location: Federation Of Bored IRC'ers
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| Posted: Dec 20, 2005 2:12pm Post subject: |
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I think Plex is a good type of service...
Because it offers Detailed logging
and Group management system that can easily add a user to a few channels besides anope AOP manually..
and Admin Permissions to help ''limit'' potential abuse and would be helpful for many other networks...
Just waiting for a stable release with the modules  |
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trystan
Eleet
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 756
Location: SLC Utah
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| Posted: Dec 20, 2005 3:59pm Post subject: |
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| Find it interesting that your behind a services that has not been released to the general public yet. |
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FBI
Guru
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 1494
Location: Federation Of Bored IRC'ers
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| Posted: Dec 20, 2005 7:50pm Post subject: |
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| trystan wrote: | | Find it interesting that your behind a services that has not been released to the general public yet. |
Everyone always gotta wait for good things....this is one of them... |
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trystan
Eleet
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 756
Location: SLC Utah
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| Posted: Dec 21, 2005 1:41pm Post subject: |
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| Interesting started this thread and expected to get lot of "anope is the best ever" post but all I've had is FBI's reply.. guessing no one wants to debate the issue |
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FBI
Guru
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 1494
Location: Federation Of Bored IRC'ers
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| Posted: Dec 21, 2005 1:51pm Post subject: |
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| trystan wrote: | | Interesting started this thread and expected to get lot of "anope is the best ever" post but all I've had is FBI's reply.. guessing no one wants to debate the issue |
Lmao.... I geuss.... |
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mentor
Newbie
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 73
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Dec 21, 2005 7:16pm Post subject: |
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It's pretty pointless to. What is best or better is completely subjective. I could sit here until I'm blue in the face stating how Anope 'sucks' or is the 'best,' and it won't matter. People will still stick by their Services of choice.
Personally, I do not like Anope on several accounts. Then again, I started doing customized services -- the Services packages out there just don't meet my needs, and really .. that is all it boils down to. It just depends on what you're looking to get out of your Services package. |
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trystan
Eleet
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 756
Location: SLC Utah
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| Posted: Dec 21, 2005 8:02pm Post subject: |
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This thread as in response to
http://searchirc.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=4414
in which people felt the need to debate this subject but when told to take it to a new thread they didn't... thus this thread.. |
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PingBad
Guru
Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 2064
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Dec 22, 2005 3:04am Post subject: |
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| I cannot put an impartial comment to this since the only services package i have experienced "in the flesh" is Anope's pretty damned good package. Okay, Anope is pretty damn great (it has its popularity for a reason), but since I haven't tried IRCServices or Atheme or any other services package, it would be unfair to put them down. SO I really can't comment on this. |
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nenolod
Idler
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 334
Location: A box!
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| Posted: Dec 25, 2005 6:06pm Post subject: |
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| PingBad wrote: | | I cannot put an impartial comment to this since the only services package i have experienced "in the flesh" is Anope's pretty damned good package. Okay, Anope is pretty damn great (it has its popularity for a reason), but since I haven't tried IRCServices or Atheme or any other services package, it would be unfair to put them down. SO I really can't comment on this. |
Anope has it's popularity, like Unreal, because it's filled with toys. Most "serious" networks are either using IRCServices or Atheme these days, because they concentrate on core functionality instead of toys.
Of course, it has to be said that Anope is less of an offender on the opertoys in comparison to the various Auspice forks. |
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Rob_
Idler
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 309
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| Posted: Dec 25, 2005 6:56pm Post subject: |
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While i dont want a flame war, and i usuasly stay out of which services/ircd is the best threads (partly because my own objectivity can easily be called into question with being one of anope's developers) - wtf are you on about? most serious networks are using atheme? and anope is a toy? *cough* bias much? *cough*
Seriously i dont much care if you like or dislike anope, but to insult all networks using it by clearly implying there not serious is just unfair, and the fact your the founder of the "serious" services you recommend in its place is pure coincidende im sure... |
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PingBad
Guru
Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 2064
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Dec 25, 2005 8:37pm Post subject: |
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well said, Rob_
Anope is a serious tool for serious networks. Atheme and other services packages can just as easily be interpreted as "toys" by anyone else.
I'm sorry for this, nenolod, but I do find your stance of trying to be "Mr. Perfect Poster" really does irritate me. All I said was that I have no basis of comment regarding this thread because of my lack of dealings with Atheme or IRCServices (or any other services package for that matter). Anope does the job of which I ask it, and to me, that is good enough. Each services package offers channel control options, nickname theft prevention methods and other tools to which an end-user (and Administrator) would find useful. If you want a "toy" services package, go out and make one where RAW is enabled by default, where you can SVSKILL and SVSNICK people at your pleasure. Until then, please do consider your words (as Rob_ said, you are founder of the Atheme project) carefully. |
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Ty
none
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Dec 25, 2005 9:41pm Post subject: |
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| PingBad wrote: | well said, Rob_
Anope is a serious tool for serious networks. |
Are you serious?
I don't think a services package that segfaults when reloading the configuration is "serious."
(Yeah, I know it's fixed in the SVN.) |
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nenolod
Idler
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 334
Location: A box!
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| Posted: Dec 25, 2005 11:06pm Post subject: |
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| PingBad wrote: | well said, Rob_
Anope is a serious tool for serious networks. Atheme and other services packages can just as easily be interpreted as "toys" by anyone else.
I'm sorry for this, nenolod, but I do find your stance of trying to be "Mr. Perfect Poster" really does irritate me. All I said was that I have no basis of comment regarding this thread because of my lack of dealings with Atheme or IRCServices (or any other services package for that matter). Anope does the job of which I ask it, and to me, that is good enough. Each services package offers channel control options, nickname theft prevention methods and other tools to which an end-user (and Administrator) would find useful. If you want a "toy" services package, go out and make one where RAW is enabled by default, where you can SVSKILL and SVSNICK people at your pleasure. Until then, please do consider your words (as Rob_ said, you are founder of the Atheme project) carefully. |
Lets make some quotes from the Anope helpfiles! (viewable at: http://anope.zero.org/docgen/en_us/)
| Quote: |
* SVSNICK
Syntax: /msg OperServ SVSNICK nick newnick
Forcefully changes a user's nickname from nick to newnick.
Limited to Super admins
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Try harder next time. Thank you! |
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w00t
Eleet
Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 699
Location: Nowra, Australia
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| Posted: Dec 26, 2005 3:16am Post subject: |
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| PingBad wrote: | well said, Rob_
Anope is a serious tool for serious networks. Atheme and other services packages can just as easily be interpreted as "toys" by anyone else.
I'm sorry for this, nenolod, but I do find your stance of trying to be "Mr. Perfect Poster" really does irritate me. All I said was that I have no basis of comment regarding this thread because of my lack of dealings with Atheme or IRCServices (or any other services package for that matter). Anope does the job of which I ask it, and to me, that is good enough. Each services package offers channel control options, nickname theft prevention methods and other tools to which an end-user (and Administrator) would find useful. If you want a "toy" services package, go out and make one where RAW is enabled by default, where you can SVSKILL and SVSNICK people at your pleasure. Until then, please do consider your words (as Rob_ said, you are founder of the Atheme project) carefully. |
It might actually help if you try software in question before making posts, PingBad... And, let's not forget to note that the first post there was rather redundant - you essentially posted saying that you couldn't make a point, but Anope was great, but you'd tried nothing else, so you couldn't comment...?
SVSNICK - oh, what, a module Anope provides as standard? Yeah. Not like we'd want people to be able to do that, eh?
RAW? - Oh, that delightful tool which Anope provided - which *was* in fact enabled *by default* up until.. was it 1.7.11? Very recently, either way.
SVSKILL - I've yet to see a mainstream Services package other than Auspice that allowed this. So, that's a load of crock.
I think that just rooted the point you were trying to make, no offence. I'd start considering your words carefully, speak what you know about  .
There are a number of reasons I support, and develop with Atheme:
- http://trac.atheme.org/timeline [regular SVN activity]
- Flexibility -- don't want NickServ? Try UserServ. Don't want ChanServ? Don't load it. Don't want a command? It's easy enough to remove. Want a command? Well, you've got a top-notch modules API to work with. Anope, while being nice -- just doesn't have this flexibility, and from a quick peek through the code, still has a lot of the old ircservices-related cruft, such as the odd signals handling, strange database manipulation.. plus some others.
Anope 2 *may* yet restore my faith, we'll see. So far, I've seen nothing but a few ideas from GD and the others, which I've discussed with them.
Moving on, nenolod does occasionally make inflamatory posts [in this case, yeah, it could have been said better.] -- it's in his nature. He's smart, but not always the most tactful of people. At least he has the advantage of one side of the coin, I guess . However, they are his *opinion* - as are the posts of any other users on this forum. Myself, what I find more irritating is 20-30 threads a day with more crap that means nothing other than yet more slapping FBI with a giant rubber cock, or whatever. Amusing, I'm sure.. but I usually like to read forums to make me *think* or inform me, which nenolod's posting generally manages, as it has a point of some kind -- regardless of whether I agree with it.
In addition, I will add I'm currently project manager of Atheme [at large, admittedly. Currently alambert is doing my job, as I'm too lazy to do it ;p] - though all decisions made are democratic to a large degree, with careful consideration to what our userbase wants. This is why we do not, and will not have a BotServ in core -- though I am considering developing one myself to distribute as an optional addon.
That was my *opinion*. |
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