Klines vs Dlines

shamrock · none Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 25

My preference leans to the Global (or server cluster) Kline on Tsora networks rather than the Gline on Bahumut style networks which rely on services. But wouldn't a global Dline be more resource efficient?

w00t · Posted: Jun 16, 2005 10:29pm Post subject:

Glines... rely on services? Since when? It really depends what IRCd you use as to what you can/can't do. For example, with Unreal/InspIRCd (maybe bahamut/ircu/etc as well, not familiar enough with them yet) any oper can /gline

nenolod · Idler Joined: 23 Jan 2004 Posts: 335 Location: A box!

I prefer the TSora style KLINE for many reasons:

First off, I control whether or not ban information from even services can affect users on my server.

Secondly, I control whether or not I want to share the ban information I recieve.

It keeps people who oper little whining children from doing harm to my userbase because they disagree with their arguments/claims.

Perhaps we need a new protocol which penalizes the drama starters. Wouldn't that be an interesting thing to see.

magpie · Idler Joined: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 454 Location: Essex, UK

When I was opered I was glad that any global G-Line I set was applied across the entire network, regardless of server admin. This is, imo, the way things *should* work - i.e. a consistent policy apply across the entire network. Why do you think of the users on your server as 'your' userbase? Chances are that they simply connected to a random server just to be on the network. They should be counted as the network's userbase.

nenolod · Idler Joined: 23 Jan 2004 Posts: 335 Location: A box!

G-Lines are all great and good until whiney children get involved. Then things can get ugly for the people you invite to your IRC server.

"We don't like this person, so we're glining him just because of that."

There must be a way to protect against such incidents. Sure, strict policies look good in writing, but that's all that they really are -- writing. A lot of networks don't even enforce their operator policies, which is something I find damn frustrating. It's also why I quit bothering with the run a linked server to another network thing several years ago.

magpie · Idler Joined: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 454 Location: Essex, UK

In my experience, if you feel a G-Line is misplaced it generally only takes a quick conversation with the oper that set the G-Line to get it sorted. I understand your point about children, and even sympathise, but as long as there are opers on the network that won't stand for misplaced G-Lines you'll be able to struggle on (I'm speaking as somebody who often queried G-Lines for users).

nenolod · Idler Joined: 23 Jan 2004 Posts: 335 Location: A box!

magpie · Idler Joined: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 454 Location: Essex, UK

If a server's violating network policies, and consistently failing to reprimand opers seen as abusive (by the majority of staff, not just you), then just jupe it. Imho, having differing policies on which G-Lines are applied where on the network is simply daft. But as I said, I'm just used to my G-Lines applying *everywhere*. :)

w00t · Posted: Jun 18, 2005 5:01am Post subject:

I can see both sides of this argument, having been involved on both sides, although I do agree more with magpie. Whiny opers are a problem, but troublesome users should *not* be able to connect elsewhere, especially if they're things like drones or spambots - there's no point.

If they aren't enforcing oper policies, there's problems with that network - and stopping GLINEs aren't going to fix this. I was on one such network and I wrote the policy for the second. It ended up actually being unnecessary since we all know what's expected of us.

nenolod · Idler Joined: 23 Jan 2004 Posts: 335 Location: A box!

Guest · Posted: Jun 19, 2005 10:29am Post subject:

Yes, Dlines are very efficient on hybrid-based IRCds. They will block a banned ip before the user has registered, whereas a Kline will not. However, some IPs are RIPE IPs and don't belong to any real ISP, so we are often forced to ban the resolved host. Otherwise if we banned a whole /8, we'd ban more ISPs than we want. To conclude, both Dlines and Klines have their purpose.

shamrock · none Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 25

Good reply, Guest, and to the point which the thread seemed to have lost.

w00t · Posted: Jun 20, 2005 4:17am Post subject:

How have we lost the point? We're discussing policy and effectivness of different styles of server bans - if anything this thread is more on-topic than many i've seen. Anyhow, redundant topic/posts since it seems to have died...

Guest · Posted: Jun 20, 2005 3:53pm Post subject:

Bahamut in particular has a unified ban system; it will automatically choose the most efficient way to handle a given akill or kline mask. The dline vs other distinction no longer matters there.

w00t · Posted: Jun 20, 2005 6:34pm Post subject:

I'd rather leave it to the oper to choose.