US Politics and Iraq - a civil conversation between friends.

al5001 · Lurker Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 181 Location: Canada

I agree with everything said, mregit. Of course, the terrorists are rich from the oil profits. It also makes you think of why gasoline prices are going higher and higher when there is no proof of an oil shortage, even though OPEC claims there is/will be. It's funny. Every decade in the 20th century, and even now in the 21st century, we have had people saying there would be an oil shortage real soon. Well, it hasn't happened yet. Ever have a feeling that it's all just a load of bullocks?

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 692

blueice · none Joined: 07 Oct 2003 Posts: 34

I know I'm at least a month too late to jump in, but this thread (and the first one leading to this) is too much for me to resist, I just HAVE to add my 2 cents here. My view is from outside the USA since I am german, and still I totally disagree with the 'official' german anti-war policies.

For my personal opinion, the USA have done the rest of the world a big favour, with taking a monster away. No doubt later generations will appreciate the fact that this sick bastard Saddam who absolutely equaled Adolf Hitler's qualities, ended his weird and unpredictable terror regime earlier than he expected, and BEFORE he was able to fulfil his dreams about nuking Washington D.C. or Tel Aviv, or both.

I feel deeply ashamed by the official german statements like 'the USA broke international laws, attacking without UN poll and without a mandate'. This is deep-fried BS, IMHO. It was not the USA who avoided the UN poll, in fact they TRIED to have the United Nations vote about the war, and they probably would have achieved that mandate. But a poll never happened because two of the privileged nations, France and Russia, used their right to place a veto, which made any further discussion obsolete. Why France and Russia, you ask? Massive commercial and economical interests. Neither France nor Russia are known for their peaceful and pacifistic past, and both had the most massive interests in Saddam staying in place and power. French megatrusts like Elf Aquitaine and others had invested uncountable billions of dollars in the southern iraqui oil fields, and the russians exclusively sold tanks, planes, weapons & ammo in unbelievable amounts to Iraq, the 3rd biggest army in the world. Both cash sources are now dried up, ooo what a pity. Bad Americans! Bad bad bad. Germany - who owes the Americans more than we could ever pay back - joining in that choir, makes me want to emigrate.

The UN deceased to a lame, impotent debating club of wavering weaklings who allowed Saddam to play hide and seek with them. He either ignored or laughed at ALL their resolutions, kicking the UN inspectors out of his country when they happened to come too close to things they were not meant to see, and the debating club did what? Nothing at all. They required a precise report about iraqui weapons, with a deadline being set. No weapons report was available after the deadline expired. Then the US troops were installed in the gulf region, and oops! All of a sudden, there was the report. Unfortunately it happened to be one huge bundle of lies and false info, stating there were NO chemical weapons whatsoever in Iraq. Later, chemical weapons HAVE been found in Iraq. Now the leftwing peacenicks started their choir, 'but but but...! These are old weapons from Iran/Iraq war, and there are not many of them, and and and...!'. Complete bullshit, boys. I can kill thousands of people with one single sarin grenade, and I guess the suffocating folks couldn't care less than about the production date stamp on that shell!

But I would like to lose a word about the way the allied troops handled all this! They had the technical equipment to win this war without own losses. They could have sent squad after squad of B-52's, 24/7, carpet bombing cities like Falludschah or Nadschaf into the ground, levelling them. Turning a hostile city into a glazed parking lot, would be the typical russian way to deal with enemies or terrorists. It would have saved several hundred american and british soldiers, and I can understand their families now saying, too bad they didn't.

But it would have killed uncountable innocent iraqi civilians as well, and that is not (anymore!) the american way to handle things. Instead of using the big hammer - which they had ready at hand - they sent their ground troops in, exposing themselves to enemy fire, to ambush attacks, to snipers and cowardish car bombers. ONLY to save the civilians! That was bravery beyond belief, and I can not tell how much I appreciated that. It might take a while until the iraqui folks will look back and appreciate it, too... but one day they will, no doubt.

I'm not a fan of war, believe me, and I'm also not the biggest fan of the Bush administration either. But this war WAS needed, and it was won, and it caused lots less victims than expected. The world needed a strong superpower with a strong leader in this case, and both were in place at the right time! I won't say thanks Mr. Bush or thanks Mr. Blair, but I will state it loud and clear: thanks USA, and thanks Britain, for what you did and for the great way it was done. This world owes you.

blueice · none Joined: 07 Oct 2003 Posts: 34

On the risk of killing the readers with boredom, I *NEED* to comment in general, on the postings done by Ashen and al5001 earlier.

Discussing these things with Ashen is absolutely senseless, IMHO. Some people have made their choice, they picked 'Stupid white men' to be their Holy Bible and this lower life form, Michael Parasite Moore, to be their Messias. They are totally convinced they are right, and nothing could ever make them change their mind, probably not even facts.

If WMD were found in Iraq today, in huge amounts, I can hear them already. It would be one big lie! A fake, made up by the CIA to post-legalize the war. If they don't WANT it to be, then it simply CAN'T be. Further discussion would be just a waste of monitor ink.

But al5001 is another case! He gave me the creeps here, with comparing the 9/11 attacks to 'kids knocking down sandcastles'. And of course those 'kids' were totally innocent! It is all ONLY the fault of the mean mean american companies, exploiting the middle east. Of course.

I hear purest communism talking to me, from that posting. And this wakes bad McCarthy-ish thoughts in me, I feel an urge to lock up al5001 and throw the key away. Nothing personal al5001, but I grew up 100 feet from the Berlin wall, and I have serious problems with Communism in general and its symptoms in particular. Some people should get the creeps from reading their own posts.

Ok, I'm done now. Kick my butt to orbit if you like Cool

pepolez · Lurker Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 163 Location: IRC

is it just me or has this thread become a place to bitch at others about how their country is run?

i have no other comment.

Rob_ · Idler Joined: 13 Dec 2003 Posts: 309