opers vs users

GreyMouser · Newbie Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Posts: 74

Is there such a thing as a difference between opers and users? We are not talking about access or privleges, we are talking about rights and how they should be treated.

Cast your vote and express yourself! Very Happy

EqualSlashed_Brian · Lurker Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 222 Location: IRC

It depends solely on the situation. An oper who uses excessive power unneccessarily is a bad oper. An oper who solely bans users who break rules or is abusive is a good oper. But I also believe in second chances, which is why I don't really like to ban people unless absolutely neccessary. That is my philosophy. I feel that opers should be friends with the users. This is the philosphy we follow on my IRC network.

zeke · Idler Joined: 04 Oct 2003 Posts: 321

I agree.
I will ban users, but I always question permanent bans, the most I ever ban for is 60-90 days, usually 7, 14, or 28/30 depending on the offence. I believe disrespect is something a lot of opers ban for wrongly. "Your mother is fat" - is disrespect to you as a user, "HA! You can't touch me!" Is disrespect to you as an oper, and unless the network in question has rules against disrespecting anyone.....the second is the only instance where "Disrespect.." should be an acceptable reason. I believe personal issues should not be solved with kills or any kind of ban. I believe opers should be made opers with suitable rank to describe their abilities (IE, not making your IRC illiterate gf a netadmin, simply because she's your girlfriend, and don't have all your tech people as globops...). I believe there should be no more than 1 oper per 5 (ish) users, depending on net size of course, and for most nets there shouldn't need to be any more than 1 oper per server online at any one time....
*shrugz* Maybe its just me...or maybe a lot of others will agree....but its my opinion Razz

GreyMouser · Newbie Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Posts: 74

Personally I see opers as nothing more than trusted users, just like a ChanOp is a trusted user. We all are human and we all deserve the same level of respect regardless of who we talk to or what access we have.

Bad opers should be dealt with just as bad users should be. I feel opers have the right to have just as much fun chatting as users and that they also have the right to /ignore anyone they wish except for when they feel they have to /ignore their own server admin.

Fireman1061 · Newbie Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 59 Location: In Hell

No,
I do not think IRCOPS(OPERS) are not God.
an IRCop has been granted his status, to help matain and run the ircd, not to abuse his privlages, and not to go into a room and demand things.
He represnts the network, the server's admin, and the network Staff. He should mantain a sence of responsiblity for his actions, and that what he does affects more than just him. There are alot of irc networks, and alot of diffent ways the Admins of there repective networks run there staff. So if you get an ircop that is abusive, Dont take it to heart, cus you can allways find a new network, with a whole diffent way of doing things.

[DiMENSiON] · Eleet Joined: 06 Sep 2003 Posts: 621

I treat opers and chanops the same as i treat everyone on any network. If they can't deal with not being treated as special, that's their own problem.. Everyone is equal in my books. Communism on IRC!

Dutch_com_freak · none Joined: 20 Feb 2004 Posts: 13

Opers are not GODS..... Opers are the calling card of the server, They should be helpfull and listen to users. yes users can be mad etc... well let them be. that's not a reason to kick or even ban them. were all human and deffenatly not the same. i think they only have to be kicked(!) if there excessive behavior cannot be tolorated anymore. Like harrasing other chatters, etc... or get the network in trouble (like ddos etc) or constantly try to adverstise etz.... i believe in 2nd chance and if your lucky mabe even a 3th... but after that BAN.... i dont live bij my network rules and i'm not a police officer on it. Opers should be friends with chatters....

What would be an OPER without his chatters? a IRC network echo Very Happy

v0rtex · Lurker Joined: 12 Sep 2004 Posts: 108 Location: IRC

IN responce to this poll i am finding it hard to vote!
With the increase in smaller networks it brings one to presume (and experiance) that users are obviously going to mean more to the opers, opposed to larger nets, where it does not matter if a few users are lost!

so...

This depends on the type of network the admin is running - if there running a botnet .. then YES... or mearly if they want to be then they CAN, because - at the end of the day the IRC protocal is free, and users can go where they wish! Will users go to a network where the opers think this way>?!!

IRC is FREE - opers give a service to users free of charge.. lets not forget this! This doesnt mean to say that i think EVERY oper thinks they are god, as this does vary on the oper.

Quote: Opers are the calling card of the server, They should be helpfull and listen to users.

dude, this is bullshit! an opers primary job is to ensure that the leafs are connected to the hubs, although i will agree that the opers jobs are changing somewhat due to network specific rules to entice users.

Quote: Opers should be friends with chatters....

And this is compulsary in your world??!!

Dutch_com_freak · none Joined: 20 Feb 2004 Posts: 13

well if your not "friends" then peeps will run off and the network would be empty soon Wink

so yep your still a oper.. with a empty network

Dr-Voodo · Eleet Joined: 07 Nov 2003 Posts: 535 Location: IRC

The only difference between an oper and a user is that the opers are in charge of the network, yet an oper is still a user of the network but with more control. Also a oper got more responsibilities then a user, for example a Oper needs to be there for the users, needs to make sure the network works and being friendly and helpful towards the users, a user doesn't need to be like that so there is defently a difference.

So how we shall threat opers? I think we should threat them the same way as we threat our users. Because even if an oper got more power, he is still a user and should follow the same rules as users.

That is anyways my thoughts. So accept it or don't Razz

Ashen · Idler Joined: 05 Jan 2004 Posts: 285

Fundamentally, Opers *are* gods!

The dictionary.com definition of "gods" includes :
# A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
# An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
# One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
# A very handsome man.
# A powerful ruler or despot.

Now, compare this with IRCops. IRC Operators :
1) are powerful rulers
2) are sometimes despotic
3) are in control of the reality of IRC
4) are followed by many IRC users
5) have powers that appear "supernatural" to users such as modehacking and glines.

----------------------------------

Think about it :
1) They posess powers far beyond what the normal IRC users has.
2) They have institutionalised power over users, including the power to decide what is 'right', 'wrong', and 'deserving of punishment'.
3) They usually have some sort of duty to maintain the IRC network on which they are an oper.
4) If they misbehave, they themselves are punished by the greater gods (aka, the admins).

By 'gods' I do NOT mean gods in the moral sense (opers are falliable, just like everyone else!), nor do I mean gods in the superiority sense (I've seen great users, and terrible opers).
I mean gods in the power sense.

Bear in mind that I am NOT saying that opers should use their powers selfishly..... but I think it is a huge deception in IRC politics when the opers claim that opers and users are equal when they aren't.
Politically, opers have a vast amount of power more then users and both groups know this. Most users are helpless compared to an oper.

My point of view is this :
1) opers have more powers then users, by necessity. Thus they are gods.
2) how opers treat users is a totally different issue.

I'm not saying opers have to treat users in any particular way, I'm just trying to get people to acknowledge that from a user's point of view, someone with the powers an oper can justifibly be called an IRC god.

-Ashen

Ashen · Idler Joined: 05 Jan 2004 Posts: 285

06:48 <Ashen> (I wonder if I will get flamed for that)
06:53 <Huggiemonster> Lol
06:54 <Ashen> honesty+++
06:54 <Ashen> most opers placate the masses by saying "look chum, we're equal *really*"
06:55 <Ashen> I dispense with that and say to people "look, the bare truth is that I have more power here then you, and
that's not going to change. That doesn't mean I'm going to be nasty or anything, it's just the way things are.
If you want to join me, work hard and maybe one day I'll see you up here. So unless you want it that bad, just
relax and have fun - let the opers/janitors take care of the problems so you can have a good time".
06:56 <Huggiemonster> Lol
06:56 <Huggiemonster> I am god for a reason, hear me rawr
06:57 <Ashen> more like "I'm just who I am, you can think of me as a god if you want to, it doesn't really matter. And I
don't need to rawr because my function here is to keep things running well, not to perform party tricks"
06:58 <Huggiemonster> Lol
06:58 <Huggiemonster> you do rawwr a lot though
06:59 <Ashen> RAWR!
06:59 <Huggiemonster> *gigglieS*
06:59 <Ashen> you just like it when you get to see me rawr :)

jcle · none Joined: 11 Mar 2005 Posts: 25

I think that opers have to set the prime example, because they are (or should be) fully aware of the rules they should be performing at a standard.
Consequences for an oper should be more harsh then that of a normal user for the following reasons
1) Opers should know the server rules
2) Opers should know the protocal when dealing with general issues
3) Opers are who the users look up to, and for that reason they should be on their best behaviour all the time, not saying they can't have fun and joke around, they just need to have a casual professional manner.

With respect to users, alot of individuals that break rules are generally new, dont know what a motd is (message of the day w/ the server rules) and doesn't really know that they broke a rule until it's too late.

I also believe that opers and users should treat each others as equals, treat someone how you want to be treated and you will gain respect wether you are an oper or a user.

At least thats my opinion anyway

[edit, spelling]

GreyMouser · Newbie Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Posts: 74

I thank everyone for their replies, some of your answers I expected to see, some i did not. Very Happy

I started this poll because Ive seen a good deal of basic human rights taken from opers by the admins.

Such as:

opers cant use /ignore on opers/users/admin.
opers cant block private messages.
opers are required to allow users to abuse them ... etc

Which I think is BS, opers may have special duties, however no one should be forced to be treated like crap because of it.

Again, thanks to all.

Stefano · Eleet Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 528 Location: Beirut

i have two examples which u strongly should consider. A network is like a restaurant. The best restaurants are french. And in france they say : "Le client est roi" which means the client is a king.
So we are at the service of our users.
you say if opers are god? and then users should bow us? well ur wrong.
serving is a suprem art. god serve man and men does not serve god.