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mouselike
Idler
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 258
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 Posted: Jan 20, 2005 10:31am Post subject: |
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| GreyMouser wrote: | | mouselike, perhaps to you "just don't do it" is a lecture, however, it's not to any grown-ups I know. |
Maybe "just do't do it" applies to you because of rules in your place of work, but why do I get the feeling that your emplying that the place of where you work generally would have the same rules as where everybody else works?
If i wanted a lecture id go commit a crime on the streets and stand up in court to take it, not from some irc/forum user.
As i said, he wanted help, i offered by giving some suggestions, if he does break company rules he does so on his own accord, not mine or anyone elses. |
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codemastr
Idler
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 353
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| Posted: Jan 22, 2005 7:32pm Post subject: |
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| mouselike wrote: | | My company wishes? They dont mind as long as the work is done. |
Then why do they block the ports? Just for fun? Just to see which employees can get around them?
| Quote: | | But if he gets fired thats his job not ours mate, so why are you worrying. he asked for a solution to it, not a lecture of life and how to do is work when you got your own to be thinking about. |
Ah ok. Lets see, SomeUser comes on these forums and asks for a solution - "How do I kill my neighbor?" Are we to answer him? After all, he's not looking for a lecture about how murder is wrong, he is looking for a solution! And furthermore, if the neighbor gets killed, "thats his life not ours mate." So why should we worry?
I hope with that example you can see why your comments are foolish? |
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mouselike
Idler
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 258
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| Posted: Jan 23, 2005 11:06am Post subject: |
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shouldnt you be coding the next critical bug into unreal *cough*shit*cough* ircd codemastr? instead of worrying about posts.
Btw you being a coder should know pleanty of reasons why they close ports off, so dont act obvlivious to your own question. |
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Willaim
Lurker
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 242
Location: IRC
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| Posted: Jan 23, 2005 11:14am Post subject: |
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| Wow, if that post wasn't so riddled with misspellings it might seem like you just dissed UnrealIRCD... good job! |
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codemastr
Idler
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 353
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| Posted: Jan 23, 2005 11:41am Post subject: |
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| mouselike wrote: | | shouldnt you be coding the next critical bug into unreal *cough*shit*cough* ircd codemastr? instead of worrying about posts. |
Ah yes, personal attacks! That's always the way to show "you're the bigger man." What's next? Are you going to insult my mother? How about just call me "stupid"? Or even better, why not "codemastr is gay"? As soon as you attack me rather than what I say, you prove to everyone here that you're a child, or at the very least, that you act like a child.
The fact is, you couldn't attack what I said because you know I was right! So what do you do? Well you do what a child would do, you assault my intelligence and slander my work and then, "pick up your marbles and run home."
| Quote: | | Btw you being a coder should know pleanty of reasons why they close ports off, so dont act obvlivious to your own question. |
Ah I'm sorry, I gave you *much* more credit than was due. You see, my question was proposed as what is called a Socratic rhetorical question. I now know that this type of questioning must have been way over your head, and for that I most certainly apologize.
You are absolutely right, I do know why the port is closed. My point was to show that *you* should know why the port is closed - because they don't want him using it! Therefore, your telling him how to get around it is not productive, it is destructive; hence my analogy to a murder. I was alluding to the fact that just because it doesn't affect you personally does not mean it is right to help someone commit a destructive act. You see, if you aid someone in murder, even though they aren't harming you, you've still committed a crime - you are an accessory to murder. That was my point. Just because going around his company's policies doesn't harm you doesn't inherently make it correct.
Again though, I'm very sorry that a rhetorical question is such a confusing concept to you, and I'm also sorry that my argument was so confusing to you that the only way you could attack it was to attack me personally. In the future, I'll be sure to speak to you as simply and plainly as I possibly can. |
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mouselike
Idler
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 258
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| Posted: Jan 23, 2005 12:02pm Post subject: |
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Why thank you, maybe just next time, just maybe you wont slam others who simply offer advice.. as i done so back.
We are all an accessory to something illegal, be it if we knew it or not, decoy to a shop lifter, murder etc, we all play a part, just like you and your coders also did with the ability to spy on users at one point in your ircd, that aint productive its destructive to the users privacy.
Personal attacks show how bigger i am? Quite frankly if thats how you think i am trying to be then you obviously are as of a child to think that too, what i said was to defend my corner as you seem to be pointing the finger at me, i offered simple advice, if you feel what i done was wrong please state it in a thread directed at me or even in pm, or on irc if you feel, your likes simply drag down the topic of discusion in the post.
My spelling? Sorry if it means so much to you those who make an effort in correcting your spelling, i for one dont care how something is typed regardless of its a mix of one language to another, aslong as its readable who gives a ....? |
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Willaim
Lurker
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 242
Location: IRC
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| Posted: Jan 23, 2005 12:09pm Post subject: |
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| I don't care about other's spelling most of the time, unless it's an insult, one which was not needed in this scenairo (sp). Let's see your perfect ircd software with no flaws? |
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codemastr
Idler
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 353
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| Posted: Jan 23, 2005 3:21pm Post subject: |
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| mouselike wrote: | | Why thank you, maybe just next time, just maybe you wont slam others who simply offer advice.. as i done so back. |
If you offer advice of such a nature I will comment on it. If you offered someone advice on how to
| Quote: | | We are all an accessory to something illegal, be it if we knew it or not, decoy to a shop lifter, murder etc, we all play a part, just like you and your coders also did with the ability to spy on users at one point in your ircd, that aint productive its destructive to the users privacy. |
I've never been an accessory to any crime, maybe you have, but I haven't so speak for yourself, ok? Secondly, the +I mode in Unreal was *not* illegal. IRC is a PUBLIC sphere, you have NO reasonable expectation of privacy in a PUBLIC sphere. Nor do you have a reasonable expectation of privacy in a private sphere that is not your own. You call it "destructive" to users' privacy, well the users are fools if they think that the Internet is a private place! Is it spying on a customer when a store monitors you on CCTV? No. Nor is it spying when someone monitors you on *their* server. It would be like walking into your neighbor's house and accusing them of spying because they have the nerve to watch you as you walk around their house... it's their house, they can monitor every last thing you do!
| Quote: | | Personal attacks show how bigger i am? Quite frankly if thats how you think i am trying to be then you obviously are as of a child to think that too |
Ok. Once again, I'm sorry. If you didn't understand a rhetorical question, then you certainly would not understand sarcasm! You see, what I meant was, by insulting me personally, rather than my argument, all you did was show that you act like a child. That's how sarcasm works, you say the opposite of what you actually mean. Once again, I apologize.
| Quote: | | i offered simple advice, if you feel what i done was wrong please state it in a thread directed at me or even in pm, or on irc if you feel, your likes simply drag down the topic of discusion in the post |
Yes, you offered simple advice. But you offered bad advice! That's the whole point! You don't seem to understand that. Your advice can and probably will get him in trouble! We should NOT be giving such advice. I don't know why that is so hard for you to comprehend. And who cares if this "drags down the discussion"? The discussion should never have happened in the first place since he was asking you how to break the rules of his company! |
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[DiMENSiON]
Eleet
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 621
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| Posted: Jan 23, 2005 3:42pm Post subject: |
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| Mod's note: Off-topic |
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mouselike
Idler
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 258
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| Posted: Jan 23, 2005 4:11pm Post subject: |
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| yawn? you quite finished yet codemastr? Aint got time to argue with you every time. |
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[DiMENSiON]
Eleet
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 621
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| Posted: Jan 23, 2005 4:20pm Post subject: |
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| codmastr 1 - 0 mouselike |
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mouselike
Idler
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 258
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| Posted: Jan 23, 2005 4:32pm Post subject: |
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| na i just know when to stop gassing as he likes arguements it would seem, though he does argue well, its totally unrelated to the topic and this will just go no where. |
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braindigitalis
Idler
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 443
Location: IRC
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| Posted: Jan 24, 2005 12:58pm Post subject: |
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For once, and im shocked to hear myself say this,
CODEMASTR IS RIGHT!
If your place of work/college/school has blocked off specific ports, its for the security of their network. It may not seem like this to you, when all you want to do is chat, but they have profit to make and a network to secure.
By poking holes into their security to chat on their time, you risk the following:
(1) Accidentally or on purpose leaking proprietary data onto a public medium
(2) Drawing attention to company address space, risking DDOS in some cases
(3) Some might say 'giving the wrong impression' of a workplace (i dont neccessarily agree with this one)
Remember that as you poke these holes you risk losing them profit. If you lose them profit, you risk cutting your OWN wages.
hypothetical situation, lets say that you accidentally dcc'ed someone the company accounts database (just an example!)... and that someone sold it to a competitor. That competitor used said information against your place of work, and next week lost so much money from it they laid off 50 staff... including YOU. Now can you say that it would just be a bit of harmless fun?
Currently i work for a small company and the smaller the company the smaller a threat is needed to cause them major grief, so im quite aware of all these issues that you might say 'arent a big thing' and that 'they have bigger things to deal with'. If they had bigger things to deal with, do you really think they'd have spent $1,000 on an expensive cisco managed switch, another $1,000 on a firewall, and $1,000 on web filtering software? (take most schools for example) surely the risk must justify this cost for them to want to SPEND this money to keep you away from irc, msn, aim, and the like? (just look into IT risk assessments, youll see what i mean).
I rest my case. |
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[DiMENSiON]
Eleet
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 621
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| Posted: Jan 24, 2005 2:46pm Post subject: |
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| Yep, i'm also with codemastr. And i agree with what Brain said.. i'm still working on a way round the port blocks on irc @ school ... i will do it :D |
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Talrias
Lurker
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 163
Location: :noitacoL
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| Posted: Jan 24, 2005 4:52pm Post subject: |
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So let's go back to the first reply to this topic - speak to the network admin if you have a legitimate use. Anything else is immoral and possibly illegal. Is any further discussion on this really required?
Chris |
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