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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1122
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 Posted: Nov 09, 2004 7:13am Post subject: |
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| exactlly right. |
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W-Unit
Newbie
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Nov 11, 2004 9:03pm Post subject: |
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I know what the services Raw command does, know how to use it, and see no practical use for it.
If there is someone who downloads an IRCd who cannot be trusted with knowing a command, why did they download the IRCd? The worst that can happen is crashing the net, right? Which probably for them will be their one little server with 5 users and O:Lines for everyone.
An administrator should have total control over their network. TOTAL control. From this it is possible that someone could start a network that grew to 5,000+ users and none of their staff know a bunch of commands that could make life 1000x easier. For the car analogy that to me is like handing someone who had never seen a car before the keys to a Lamborghini and telling them a few basic things, leaving out perhaps the small fact of how to use the brakes?
How did YOU people find out about these commands?
| Quote: | | and when asked my standard response is "It is a dangerous command, capable of breaking the entire network, if you are having to ask me how to use it, you shouldn't be touching it at all." |
Most people I know would do one of two things when they get this response. Either ask another oper or play with the command until they have a decent understanding of it. It would seem infinitly less destructive to me to tell the person how to use the command. If they cannot be trusted with it, take away a few of their operflags rather than give them the power but not the knowledge. |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1122
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| Posted: Nov 11, 2004 10:09pm Post subject: |
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| W-Unit wrote: | I know what the services Raw command does, know how to use it, and see no practical use for it.
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Which is one reason it's not documented, it's useless to someone that don't know how to use it .. and someone that does know how don't need the documentation. BTW, it's used for debugging.
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If there is someone who downloads an IRCd who cannot be trusted with knowing a command, why did they download the IRCd? The worst that can happen is crashing the net, right? Which probably for them will be their one little server with 5 users and O:Lines for everyone.
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Unless they have an O:Line on a bigger net as well and practice there first.
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An administrator should have total control over their network. TOTAL control. From this it is possible that someone could start a network that grew to 5,000+ users and none of their staff know a bunch of commands that could make life 1000x easier. For the car analogy that to me is like handing someone who had never seen a car before the keys to a Lamborghini and telling them a few basic things, leaving out perhaps the small fact of how to use the brakes?
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Total control has nothing to do with having everything memorized. You can drive a car and have total control yet not know absolutely everything about it.
Lets use an anology that at least fits, brakes are vital information to use the car safely. knowing the RAW command is not vital to run the network. In fact, it don't need to be in existance at all.
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How did YOU people find out about these commands?
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USE THE SOURCE, LUKE!! |
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zeke
Idler
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 324
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| Posted: Nov 12, 2004 4:57am Post subject: |
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i learnt raw mostly by using google to get enough info so as to make a mirc socket link to Unreal3.2 (as a server) and then made it spit everything to the active window....then went from there.
All the opers that ask me about raw respect that they shouldn't know about it, they know I'll get somewhat p'd off at them if they use it and break stuff.... |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1122
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| Posted: Nov 12, 2004 7:14am Post subject: |
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actually you can learn alot from RFC's  |
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W-Unit
Newbie
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Nov 12, 2004 4:46pm Post subject: |
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| katsklaw wrote: | | USE THE SOURCE, LUKE!! |
Is UnrealIRCd not closed-source?
| zeke wrote: | | All the opers that ask me about raw respect that they shouldn't know about it, they know I'll get somewhat p'd off at them if they use it and break stuff.... |
Ok, so maybe the people you know are more trustworthy than the people I know. That being said, why not tell them how to use it? If they know what it does, they can only be less likely to damage something with it, and if they do end up screwing something up they take full accountability for it and can't use the "I didn't know" excuse. |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1122
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| Posted: Nov 12, 2004 6:31pm Post subject: |
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| W-Unit wrote: | | katsklaw wrote: | | USE THE SOURCE, LUKE!! |
Is UnrealIRCd not closed-source? |
LOL, that's funny!! ... Unreal is *NOT* closed source .. try opensource GPL. |
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Howard
none
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Nov 12, 2004 7:54pm Post subject: |
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| W-Unit wrote: | | katsklaw wrote: | | USE THE SOURCE, LUKE!! |
Is UnrealIRCd not closed-source?
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Egad, and here I've been tweaking on closed source for two-three years now?
<Ghost of Sammy Davis in the background>
Here come da judge, here come da judge. |
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zeke
Idler
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 324
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| Posted: Nov 13, 2004 4:18am Post subject: |
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lol, yeah, codemastr is an idiot, and freely gives out the source to his closed-source software.{/sarcasm}
see all the .c files in the src/ directory? thats the source code.... and yes most of what i learnt "from google" was from finding the rfc's and finding what i needed... |
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W-Unit
Newbie
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Nov 13, 2004 8:26am Post subject: |
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ok so maybe I am a noob. I guess I just assumed it was closed-source since it didn't specifically say it was open-source (or at least I didn't see it say that) on the site.
But there is no /src directory. Yes I checked if it was a hidden directory. This is WinXP if that makes a difference. The only subdirs are /networks /doc /aliases /tmp /modules
There are also no .c files or anything like that in the home directory and a search for *.c turns up nothing. |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1122
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| Posted: Nov 13, 2004 11:51am Post subject: |
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| W-Unit wrote: | ok so maybe I am a noob. I guess I just assumed it was closed-source since it didn't specifically say it was open-source (or at least I didn't see it say that) on the site.
But there is no /src directory. Yes I checked if it was a hidden directory. This is WinXP if that makes a difference. The only subdirs are /networks /doc /aliases /tmp /modules
There are also no .c files or anything like that in the home directory and a search for *.c turns up nothing. |
LOL, the windows version is compiled Binary so you won't have a src directory, However it appears that you didn't read the License agreement in the installer or you would know if it's open or closed You can easily get the source, just dowload the *nix version and presto! |
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W-Unit
Newbie
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Nov 14, 2004 9:13am Post subject: |
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| katsklaw wrote: | | However it appears that you didn't read the License agreement in the installer or you would know if it's open or closed |
I have never in my life seen someone read one of those. Not once.
Anyhoo thanks for helping me, noobishness aside. |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1122
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| Posted: Nov 14, 2004 12:06pm Post subject: |
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| W-Unit wrote: | | katsklaw wrote: | | However it appears that you didn't read the License agreement in the installer or you would know if it's open or closed |
I have never in my life seen someone read one of those. Not once.
Anyhoo thanks for helping me, noobishness aside. |
Now you have. I do ... also just because you don't read the license doesn't mean your not bound to it .. take 5 minutes of your busy IRC life and read it |
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zeke
Idler
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 324
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| Posted: Nov 14, 2004 5:04pm Post subject: |
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| and I read most of 'em....depending on what I'm using the software for etc, and how complicated it is to understand |
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