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gtpnos
Newbie
Joined: 05 Aug 2003
Posts: 67
Location: USA
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 Posted: Feb 20, 2004 10:03pm Post subject: |
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| al5001 wrote: | I think what he means is he does not want his network listed in the networks section. I understand this because, since some servers do not have any drone protection and wish to stay "unlisted".
However, by attacking the webmaster(s) of this website, he only makes himself look amateurish. |
al5001, obviously you haven't visited any of the work/related work to this network, if you have you'll notice that staying private will not be something that will happen to this place, networks always have the choice to only allow listed IPs/Users to their servers, after going there myself the place doesn't list anything about "spiders" there's a note about link lookers but those are different then any technology used here. If you look back to alot of the earlier abuse issues that were pointed towards SearchIRC providing the data for you'll find that it was not SearchIRC providing the information. Maybe something new can be created an internet restraining order, since theres nothing banning the general public "spiders" from the servers you could just issue independent restraining orders to each spider, that would take care of it 
peace
gtpnos |
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Mary
SearchIRC Admin
Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 692
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| Posted: Feb 20, 2004 11:30pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Maybe something new can be created an internet restraining order, since theres nothing banning the general public "spiders" from the servers you could just issue independent restraining orders to each spider, that would take care of it :P
peace
gtpnos |
First of all I want to say that I believe ANY website that promotes IRC in a positive light is a Good Thing. We have a whole list of recommended IRC sites (link to your left) that we think do wonderful things for IRC. IMO, there can't be too many pro-IRC sites to attract more users, promote networks, and encourage development.
If a site is going to provide information about IRC as a whole, then it most likely will have to utilize some mechanism to get data from the networks. ie, bots. My experience with SearchIRC makes me sympathetic to anyone else trying to work with IRC networks. The growing mountain of networks in front of us speaks clearly - we are crossing the line where it is no longer practical, or even possible, to make a personal appeal to each admin. It would be like asking Google to get written permission from every webmaster before listing their site.
Google has a way for websites to "opt out" by putting code in their site that turns their spiders away. IRC admins can do the same thing by banning the IP of the indexers that visit them. This would be fine if the ONLY web search engine webmasters had to be concerned with was Google, or the only IRC search engine networks had to watch for was SearchIRC. As any webmaster can tell you, their site is visited by dozens of spiders as well as programs designed to harvest their entire content, emails of users, and other things that could either cripple a site or enrage visitors. You really have to be on your toes to protect your site and its content. IRC networks have similar concerns. SearchIRC won't evade bans to get information from your network, and we have ethical parameters that keep us from spying on channel conversations or harvesting file lists. But there are numerous IRC spiders that will evade bans, run off of hacked boxes and proxies, in short do everything possible to force their way onto networks to get what they want. I have visited other IRC websites where dozens of admins were screaming about bots evading their bans, and logging channel conversations without users even knowing they were there - and you have seen me speak out against more than one of them.
Restraining orders are a legal response - and a good idea - but they won't work. The laws of the US (ie, the Electronic Privacy Act) and most other countries are vague, but appear to be on the side of the spiders. As long as you aren't intercepting encrypted transmissions, its fair game. Anyone can join a network, join channels, issue any command or message any user, and gather whatever information or conversation or data they can get, and it is theirs to do with as they please. Ethically I think it stinks. But it appears to be legal.
I think the answer will come from our ircd and services coders, and the admins themselves. I see a day when they will provide access for the services they support to get information about the network, and block that information from non-registered users (ie, non-approved spider bots). |
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Michael
none
Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Feb 21, 2004 4:00am Post subject: |
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Diego, contrary to what you have said, I think it is now clear that Mary did indeed come to say "hi" when the network was submitted. If that admin didn't speak of it to you, there's nothing SearchIRC can do about that.
It is now up to you to decide whether or not you want the bot, and you've been given plain instructions on how to do it.
That about wraps up my participation in this discussion. |
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