Admins spy users PM's?

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 692

I want to personally thank codemastr and AngryWolf for responding on our forums.

These two extraordinary coders devote an enormous amount of time to improving IRC for all of us, and I don't for an instant underestimate the difficulty of their task. As Timmy said, the number of servers using their code stands as testiment to exactly how good a job they do.

A lot of the issues that face IRC are neither black nor white. There are no simple answers for the coders, or the administrators. But open discussion allows everyone to put their opinion on the table, and if we are respectful and understanding of each other, surely bring us to solutions.

al5001 · Lurker Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 181 Location: Canada

One thing that might be useful is when a user sends a private message with a URL in it, to allow IRC Ops to read that one message. This can help track down spam/viruses/crackers, as well, if someone sends a URL of child pornography, it can be checked by an IRC Op.

SiD · Newbie Joined: 23 Jun 2003 Posts: 60 Location: Australia

leightsy · Guest

it is perfectly legal for any person or persons to record monitor or survail a person or persons.As long as there is no intrusion reproduction or broadcasting of the media. Hence forth you may implement such things as loggers recorders reverse dns etc, these can be if secure considered as security models not survailence tools.

THANKYOU LEIGHTSY
leightsy@hotmail.com

aquarat · Guest

I believe that the mistake does not lie with AngryWolf or for that matter the designers of the software simply because they created something that could be used for both good or evil.

If I took the reasoning and logic of some of the users on this board (namely the ones that said the module is bad), I could use that some form of thinking to say a car is bad, and a TV is bad, and etc... WHY ? because a car can be used to kill someone, therefore its bad, lets go kill the owner of some car manufacturing company. TVs are bad, WHY ? because you can use it to look at pornography... in other words it is up to you, the USER to work out how you want to USE the creation... good or evil ?

I can see that there is the opportunity to use poor AngryWolf's module for evil specifically, but as we have already seen in the previous posts that it can also be used for good as well.

Unreal is completely amazing. How someone can put so much time into creating something so user friendly and advanced and then put a price tag on it of 0 and then offer it to the web is completely amazing to me, well done code master for your contribution to the internet.

AngryWolf : Don't get discouraged, don't have sleepless nights, people have issues and you shouldn't allow their issues to become your issues. You created something that has the potential to help people, why should you now suffer ?

Um, so bla Razz

AngryWolf · none Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 2

Thank you, guys.

aquarat: I have only one reason to suffer, that is, if I do bad to people, even if not "directly" or unwantedly. Thanks anyway for your suggestion. In addition, your examples were fine.

I also agree with people who say spy modules shouldn't be used, but only if there aint no other working solution. Probably I'll think of the idea about /clipboard that someone come up with in this forum, it seems to be a lot better and more ethical; however as others said, still anyone having programming knowledges may change the code of either the module or the IRC server software itself to see every private messages. In fact, that's what noone can stop at all, but as soon as you experience such an abuse on a network, you should just leave it or use a strong CTCP encryption or something like that when you are sending sensitive information. I don't believe abusive networks can have a long life after becoming public that their admins did unethical actions.

al5001 · Lurker Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 181 Location: Canada

DCC chat is probably the most secure

Jay · none Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Posts: 43

If people mean bad, you can't stop them.
Angrywolf has written some code hacks for unreal, he's done one hell of a job with it. Congratz

DCC is secure, or use blowfish encryption, that works fine too. (if you don't allow direct p2p connection.)

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

If someone really wants to monitor you (ie you are doing stuff bad enough) they will monitor you right at your access point or as close to it as possible Smile

My rant isn't against the module writer-its against those who will use this for improper means-and then after being 'violated' by someone using it improperly, will assume anyone running Unreal does, is all.

Like I said previously, its good that users can tell what you're using and what you aren't so they don't just have to take your word for it.

Guest · Posted: Feb 24, 2004 5:42am Post subject:

[moderator edit: insult removed]

ever thought of catching a packet kiddie im his botnet channel commanding his bots.

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

Sure-just join a client with a similar nick to the bots, unopered, and wait for results.

You don't have to have a mode to spy on every channel to do this-just a unopered client sitting in the channel waiting for a PM or channel command to see whats going on. You don't have to spy on every PM on the network to do this-just put a client in the channel and see if it gets PM'd.

Guest · Posted: Mar 03, 2004 6:57pm Post subject:

Itsy · none Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 5

There's no legitimate use for such a thing other than just plain spying. If the capability is there, LEOs can force release of logged PM chat as well.
One of the advantages of PM is that it's 'private' .. and anybody with half a brain can get around it anyway.. just establish a dcc outside the net (including the setup phase).

Not a grand idea and doesnt do anything to enhance IRC's already not swell reputation as it is.

Guest · Posted: May 18, 2004 2:03pm Post subject:

This absolutely astounds me. Since when should you argue the ETHICS of software?

IRCDs are used as a major distribution point of warez online. They are placed on hacked boxes and other servers all over the world where thousands upon thousands of people this very instant are trading warez and other stolen items online. Thousands of people are trading child pornography online via the use of the very software you create.

Does this mean that the continued development and release of the IRCD is unethical? Of course not.

One can say that IRC mediums themselves aren't the problem, it's the people on the networks that do it. But when you go onto those networks and you see rooms with 3,000+ people. When you ask them what "IRC" is the first thing they're going to say is "oh that's where I or my friends get movies". Most of the people otherwise have no clue what IRC is.

So on the same basis for your arguments against this module, the continued development and support of these networks and these people is 'unethical'.

But ethics should not play a role into why you do or do not create software for computers. They are done for innovation. What people do with them and how to deal with it should be an after thought.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with spying on users of an IRC network or internet medium if the law that governs the server actually allows it to be done. For example, in the state of Maryland, you can tape any and all phone conversations as long as the other party was made verbally aware that the conversation was being taped. I would imagine the same law, if not a similar law also governs the monitoring of computer chatter in the state of Maryland. Many companies themselves in fact make employees aware that they do monitor activity.

You might not agree with it, but if the function is wanted and can be legitimately used by people, why should you not create it and incorporate it into the software? Not everybody is a developer and therefore not everybody is comfortable applying code or modifying code themselves.

The fact is that I think you all really ought to take another look at what you view as ethical and what legally can be done.

uchat · Idler Joined: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 335

funny thing about ethics is it's lack of defined boundries. what may be ethical to you may be unethical to others. Dont get me wrong, I'm against warez and don't allow it on my network. The same with spying.

True, the software it's self can't be un/ethical but the purpose of it can be.