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al5001
Lurker
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 181
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Jan 20, 2004 11:02pm Post subject: |
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| on unreal you can deny certain files from being sent... but this takes away users freedom of sharing those files which have extensions that are blocked... as well.. some users dont want anyone to send them anything, considering it is sometimes annoying if you chat and suddenly a DCC send/chat prompt pops up |
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Rob_
Idler
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 309
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| Posted: Jan 21, 2004 3:17am Post subject: |
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as a dcc is essentialy started via a ctcp* saying "dcc send/chat" dosnt the block CTCP mode also block dcc requests?
* i dont have any code infront of me to check that about dcc's but from memory it sounds right :)
Rob |
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al5001
Lurker
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 181
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Jan 21, 2004 5:46pm Post subject: |
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| DCC is separate... |
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al5001
Lurker
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 181
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Jan 22, 2004 1:08am Post subject: |
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okay lets not worry about it.. back to the topic that this m_spy module puts a bad reputation on servers.. what about the users that dont know this module is running?
sure they can do /module, but not everyone knows about it..
if users find out admins can see what they say in PM, they will just stop going on IRC and IRC will have a bad reputation.. |
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U
Eleet
Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 521
Location: IRC
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| Posted: Jan 22, 2004 7:56am Post subject: |
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Ok, some users won't know about it, but the ones that do will create a stink about it and know where to look, and negative word of mouth will do more than you think  |
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Zeromancer
Guest
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| Posted: Jan 25, 2004 1:19pm Post subject: unethically spoken or watching their own? |
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Ladies and gentlemen,
we can all aurge the point of how unethical and wrong it is
to monitor the users, until you come across one that costs
you a little more than the ethics you stand by. When a group
of hostile users in your area of living come to your server
and start ploting to attack your house, and you have no way
to prove it except you were lucky enough to have someone
on the inside of this.
Yes, i was attacked, and for i question how unethical it is to
have such security measures to watch questionable users,
let us no forget the little people who are running the network
from their homes are very open to public attack not only from
hackers, but from random assholes coming to cut your cable
modem wires.
I admit these things can be used for evil, there is no dbout, but
then again, it could end up saving a little girl's life as some low
life bastard cons her into visting him. Security or Unethical?
you take your pick, I don't firmly stand behind watching messages
just to watch them, but for the security of myself, and my chaters.
I'd be more than willing. I also have no problem telling,
keep in mind this is infact a PUBLIC server, all information recived
and sent, is the owners public domain to control. If you want
true privacy ... well there is no such thing on the internet.
.... freedom or salvation? |
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al5001
Lurker
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 181
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Jan 25, 2004 2:29pm Post subject: |
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like I said, its your choice to connect to an IRC server, and admins can do whatever they want with their servers
when you use the bathroom in a hotel and see a security camera in the corner while pulling out your wang is this privacy invasion???
well this works the same on an IRC server, except with the /privmsg command
if you want your private messages to be 100% secure, use DCC Chat |
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U
Eleet
Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 521
Location: IRC
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| Posted: Jan 25, 2004 5:54pm Post subject: |
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Thats a little above and beyond this discussion-it isn't legal to put cameras in bathrooms, they can put cameras on the door but not in the actual restroom (well, its not legal in California at least)
Otherwise though, you are correct-you're at the whim of the person running it. |
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DeMiNe0
Lurker
Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 195
Location: Westchester, New York
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| Posted: Jan 25, 2004 7:30pm Post subject: |
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| Rob_ wrote: | i wonder how many admins would be prepared to say "yes, my network, does/can monitor user messages" - assuming the admins who do it, believe there is nothing wrong with doing it, i would assume they wouldnt mind admiting to it too?
Rob |
I admit to using it. I find it to be a pretty helpful tool, to people who come to me telling me that this one user is spamming trojans. Otherwise i really dont see the opertunitys to steal somones info. |
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Tom-Superbands
none
Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Jan 31, 2004 8:01am Post subject: m_spy |
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Our Server uses it, we explain in the MOTD and also on a site once we update our help files, We never use it but we will in case of spamming issues or a private problem as we are a commercial Network. Only two people have access to it, you can restrict it to certain users or have a password. You also have to redirect it to a channel that only the users who have access can see. Also you must type in what nicknames you would like to view messages between, it doesn't just dump all msg's into the channel.
It is a great feature if used properley and this aides our server greatly as we have an abuse policy. Besides, No one is really using it majority of the time. |
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magpie
Idler
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 454
Location: Essex, UK
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| Posted: Jan 31, 2004 8:55am Post subject: |
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I don't think that having an abuse policy warrants its use. In my opinion, the best thing that users can do if they are being spammed or harassed by others is to simply /ignore or /silence the user (/silence is a server-side ignore introduced into ircu).
It's also not necessary to run the module to detect trojans either. Simply have a client (be it a real client, or one that runs on a pseudo-server) that joins channels and parses any private messages it gets.
I guess i'm just resigned to thinking that this feature should never be used. :) |
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U
Eleet
Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 521
Location: IRC
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| Posted: Jan 31, 2004 10:40am Post subject: |
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Well, one thing you can at least say for him-at least hes disclosing it. I'm sure there are plenty of networks using it that won't even disclose it unless you ask them.
I'm just glad the mode can be checked by users themselves, so when I tell them my network doesn't, I can show them how they can check for themselves to prove I don't |
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codemastr
Idler
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 353
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| Posted: Feb 05, 2004 7:25pm Post subject: |
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Recently I've been reading this thread and as an author of UnrealIRCd I feel the need to respond to some of the outrageous allegations people have made. Voicing your opinion about UnrealIRCd is one thing, making up facts is another.
| Quote: | | this is why I dont use unreal, it's a very highly abusive ircd to users, which is wrong, I run a network and I find these kinds of things appauling. what people do in their privacy (even if it's on your net) is their own problem, and you're least likely to be liable than spying on them, and not catching someone doing something illegal, then you have nothing to back you up from being "involved" in their activities. |
UnrealIRCd contains _no_ spying features whatsoever. There is no way for an IRC Operator to find out what goes on in a private message or in a channel without either being the recipient of that message or being in the channel. The issue here is an unofficial module to add spying capabilities. This is not something that is unique to UnrealIRCd. Other IRCds support modules, Hybrid and Bahamut for example. And every IRCd is patchable. If someone out there has decided on his/her own to write a patch that will add spying capabilities, how can you blame the authors of the original software? We did not make this feature we have nothing to do with it.
| Quote: | | unreal is one of the least professional ircd's out there |
I beg to differ. What makes it unprofessional? The fact that it offers features that appeal to many audiences? The fact that it gives the admin control that no other IRCd does? Why is that unprofessional. In fact, based on the servers I know of, there are several corporations running Unreal because of the very fact that it is professional. For example, ICQ runs UnrealIRCd, the old Dreamcast IRC server ran UnrealIRCd, etc. AOL (which owns ICQ) and Sega (which owns Dreamcast) are not small companies. They didn't choose Unreal because it allows them to be "abusive." They chose UnrealIRCd because no other IRCd available offered the professional features necessary to run a server in the type of environment they intended. There is only one potentially abusive feature that UnrealIRCd has that I can think of and this is the oper-override system. First off though this system can be completely disabled by the server admin. Second user's are made aware of this feature being active by an "O" being present in the /version flags output. Third, only operators with the specific access flag can use this feature. Forth, anytime it is used all irc operators are notified. Could this feature be used to abuse? Of course. But similar things exist even on the big networks. So Bahamut doesn't have oper-override to /kick a user. But an IRC Op can /samode him/herself to become +o then use /kick. You make like these kind of things are only in Unreal, but that is simply not the case. In fact Unreal's oper-override is LESS abusive than /samode. When someone uses /samode you see "irc.someserver.com sets mode +nt" for example. When you use the /mode oper-override you see "opersnick sets mode +nt". At least in Unreal the channel's operators have someone they can hold accountable, Bahamut on the otherhand hides the operator's identity. How exactly does this make UnrealIRCd more abusive?
| Quote: | | and it's targeted towards small networks that are just because someone got bored one day. for bigger, more dedicated networks, unreal isnt feasible. at all. |
Really? How come the UnrealIRCd programmers weren't informed of this? I'd think if anyone was doing the targetting, it would be the people who write the software. We do not target small networks. We target all networks. And to say using UnrealIRCd is not feasible is an outright lie. I can list several large networks running UnrealIRCd. The p2pchat network has roughly 2500 users, the brokenirc network has roughly 1500, the zerofusion network has roughly 2000, the chataus network has roughly 3000, ICQ has roughly 5000. And there are many more. Are there any 100000 user networks running Unreal? Probably not. But that doesn't mean it isn't capable of this. The fact of the matter is, UnrealIRCd is the most used IRCd available. You might think it is only used by little kids who wanted to run an IRCd and then the next day stopped, but you are dead wrong. I don't mind it when people say they don't like UnrealIRCd, but I do mind it when people like you go around and make outright lies about it.
| Quote: | | I should make a list of "abusive" ircd's one day. |
If you do I hope no one looks at it because if your post is any indication, you have no idea what the word "abusive" means and you certainly have no clue which IRCds contain abusive features.
Also about a mode to block DCCs. Why are people complaining that Unreal doesn't have such a feature? If you wanted such a feature, why not come and let the UnrealIRCd coders know? I've never heard a single person ask for this feature, if I had I'd probably have added it, it sounds like a good idea to me. My point is, if you want a feature, don't come to SearchIRC and complain that it doesn't exist, instead go to the program's authors and let them know of your idea. You're far more likely to get your suggestion heard if you choose the latter.
If people have questions about what UnrealIRCd does/doesn't support or things Unreal should/shouldn't have it's best if you direct this at the people who can do something about it, the programmers. Of course having discussions here and elsewhere is fine, but basically you are talking to people here who have no control over UnrealIRCd whatsoever therefore in the case of a DCC blocking mode, no one here is going to make it so that mode is available in Unreal. |
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Timmy|superbands
none
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Feb 05, 2004 9:02pm Post subject: |
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all i can say is well said Codemastr from UnreallIRCd i use Unreal and i believe it is the best IRCd out there and the amount of small and large servers using it should stand as testiment of how bloody good it is.
Timmy
Founder
irc.superbands.net
UnreallIRCd User |
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AngryWolf
none
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Feb 07, 2004 4:14pm Post subject: |
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Actually this forum showed me and made me learn what a big mistake I have done with making abusive modules available for everyone. Now I totally understand why +I have gone out of UnrealIRCd. I can't believe what a big mess I've caused by just one simple, absolutely non-official module. I understand the problems of all network administrators, at the other hand I'm glad to hear there are still people who find it useful to.protect their users from unwanted things (thanks a lot).
Well, UnrealIRCd isn't the only program which you can modify or patch. The reason why I like coding modules for this IRC server software is, I find it a very great program with lots of useful features and I want to make it better. I don't intend to put a bad reputation on it. Therefore, those modules which were abusive are no longer available to download from my website. I know it's a very late step from me, but I had to start preventing abuse somewhere.
Please understand, I had many dreamless nights because of this fault, and accept that I'm not perfect. Thanks in advance. |
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