Admins spy users PM's?

Guest · Posted: Jan 18, 2004 11:14am Post subject:

hehe

Ferg
QuakeNet Operator
QuakeNet PR (leader)
Quakenet Security (member)

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 691

Ohhhhh Quakenet guy!

We need help. SearchIRC has been having a real problem getting complete /list results. Our program pings out about 4/5ths of the way through, which made us lose the oldest and most established channels. The only way around it is to get /list for channels with 8 users and above, which really hurts the small chans that want to be on SearchIRC to attract more users (and they are complaining to us about that!)

I've tried to contact an admin to get an I line with a larger ping time, but no response. Can you help us out with that?

ALSO... since you are the PR guy too, are you the person to talk to about editing SearchIRC's Quakenet section? We are giving network admins and their appointed reps access to fill in info about the network, services, and history. Just email me or stop into #searchirc on irc.searchirc.com and we can set it up.

al5001 · Lurker Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 181 Location: Canada

magpie · Idler Joined: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 454 Location: Essex, UK

Timmy|superbands · none Joined: 19 Jan 2004 Posts: 36

G'day Everyone,
This seems to be a subject that is very tentitive both regarding liability and under the privacy act i am in two minds myself finding that this module would be very handy in areas of problem chatters yet i feel it should only be made available to top level administrators of any server and like operserv commands be logged and also chatters should be made fully aware again touchy subject it wouldnt be right to use it without changes made to the motd file.
In closing i feel it shoud be used with caution ...... legal advice should be sought.

Timmy|superbands
Founder
irc.superbands.net

Zero_Cool · none Joined: 19 Jan 2004 Posts: 2

I really must agree with the gentleman who said "should only be used by top level administrators." I will not deny using this module on my network. However, it is restricted to Network Administrators only, and there are only three netadmins, myself included. When +I was removed from Unrealircd, I was ecstatic. I hated that mode as I saw too many IRCops abuse it just for fun. When I learned of the m_spy module, I found myself wondering about the same possibilities. It does pose ethical issues..for me, Invasion of Privacy. As an earlier post stated "pm stands for PRIVATE message." Very well said and very true. I spoke with the other netadmins on my network and it was decided to implement this module and restrict its usage the NetAdmins only. And it is only to be used in instances where we have reason to believe that a certain user may pose a threat to network security. (We have had problems with attackers and such in the past..and have just recently rebuilt the network.) So for security purposes, yes I am running this module. Am I going to use it to spy on everything each one of you says? No. That being said, I leave you to your opinions.

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

Thats fine if you want to modify the module to do that.

I don't see any need to spy on user's pm's whatsoever, so I just won't use the module.

Odds of the module being abused will be zero on my network-can't abuse something thats not there Smile

SdgNem · none Joined: 22 Oct 2003 Posts: 23

Thats how I felt about it when I was using this module. But, even when I was only using it for the right reasons I saw how it could be abusive and how "intrusive" it can be to users. I guess you could say that the reality of it is that when user(s) connect to your network or server they honestly do have very little rights and that they are in your "home." Me being an net admin of a very small network realized this and really its not needed and something that shouldn't have really not been made. No one should bash the UnrealIRCd because of this module it is a 3rd party module (it was written by someone other than the coding team for the IRCd). And, if you would have asked someone from the Unreal's coding team to write something like this they would have refused your request unless you were willing to pay for such a module and probably would ask for an agreement not to share this module with others.

That being said, AngryWolf, the guy that coded this module does indeed have some very usefull modules, and I still go to his website and am using some of his stuff. If I remember right he coded a new version of the module to require a password for it before you could use the command. Its been out for awhile now with this password thing but like I said I won't ever be using this module again no matter what type of security stances are taken for the use of it. Even with things like this you should tell your users that this kind of thing is being used. And, if you say "Well, we will only use it if we feel there is a threat to the network or other networks.", there is always that suspicion from the user(s) that you might be spying on their private messages. I know that if I were a user on a network that ran this module I would more than seriously consider spending my IRC time on another network and when I say this I'm more than sure that I'm not alone on this. I guess if your network has a history of users doing malicious things then it might be usefull but if your network is a more laid-back kind of place then really this is just another way for a network staff to feel all great with their oper abilities.

al5001 · Lurker Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 181 Location: Canada

theres nothing illegal about running this module... its your choice to go on an IRC server.. its not privacy invasion by running this module cuz YOU connect to the server... its like if you sleep in a hotel for the night... and they have security cameras... nothing illegal there

although, it is kind of lame to spy on users private messages..

if you want protection from viruses just add a word filtering system to the IRCd so people cant type "http://" or "www." in a private message..

another thing that would work is to just let your users decide whether it is a good idea to go to the URL or not..

also helps if you add a mode like umode +m to block private messages... conferenceroom is the only IRCd that I know of that has this... it also has umode +e which blocks DCC so you cannot exploit... I wonder when unreal coders will actually code something useful into the ircd rather than making more IRC Op tools to make users bow to you like your a king

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 691

ShadowRage · none Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 10

only the fbi can do that ;P sadly, now it's legal for them to do that..

but anyways, the ironic bit to the whole deal is the fact if you accidently miss activity (suchs as drug trading) the courts can hold you responsible if they discover the traders on your network, or hackers or whatever, undernet is notorious for these things, and if they started spying on their users, they become legally liable and can be sent to jail for "involvement"

the spy module is a real good way to loose popularity quick, and a good way to get you into trouble, sometimes it's best to not know what your users are doing in private, because then you're less likely to be jailed over it.

SdgNem · none Joined: 22 Oct 2003 Posts: 23

SdgNem · none Joined: 22 Oct 2003 Posts: 23

Further more straight from the changes file from the UnrealIRCd Unreal3.2-beta19.tar.gz file:

- Multiple /module changes (the command):
- Normal users can now get a list, versioninfo will be hidden however.
- Opers get some additional details like hooks and commandoverride's.
- Opers can use /module <servername> to get a remote list of loaded modules.
- Added flag [3RD] to show it's a 3rd party module
This was requested by by quite some people because serveradmins started to load
"spy modules" without clearly mentioning it in the MOTD (which is highly unethical
and in some countries even illegal due to privacy law). Also the remote module
list was requested by quite a few opers.
Sure, this isn't a 100% guarantee but at least if someone goes hiding stuff
then it's clear what their intentions are (and thus will be refused support, ..).

And to also address your CTCP question heres this:

- Added usermode +T - No CTCP (excludes ACTION and DCC), (#001288) suggested by White_Magic
and others.

al5001 · Lurker Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 181 Location: Canada

its still better to block DCC using a mode.. and its simple if you want to send a file on conferenceroom when +e is automatically set you just do /umode -e send the file then /umode +e, no hassle...

+d doesnt warn the user that the person is blocking PM... for example on conferenceroom if you set umode +m to block PM... opers can still PM you but not normal users.. and if normal users pm you, they see this:

nick does not wish to receive that message

you get that same message if you DCC send a file to someone if they have +e or if they block CTCP with +p umode...

unreal finally does have a mode to block ctcp (umode +T) but no mode to block dcc.. and not all IRC clients support DCC/CTCP ignore feature..

I still say they should code something useful.. and perhaps take out /shun command..

SdgNem · none Joined: 22 Oct 2003 Posts: 23

No, pleasing the biased I guess.