Admins spy users PM's?

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 692

Shes, I KNOW spying goes on through channel service bots, network bots, and regular old eggies, and I'm sure any admins who spy in those ways would spy through their server too if they could. I'm just saying that afaik, on big nets spying via a client server isn't practical. But its been a while since I was a targ... uh... ran a server, and things change.

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

What surprises me on a daily basis is how many networks have administration that sometimes plays with users (ie, killing them for no reason, providing shoddy service, etc) and those users keep coming back.

Unfortunately, this will probably happen with this module too. Most people won't notice its happening, and those admins who choose to use it will have fun doing it.

Sure, some channels that don't want this type of monitoring will look around for another place, but once the fanfare about this dies down, it will just be another thing for a bad admin to use.

I don't really like the attitude of the person who designed the module either "well if someone uses this for no good, its not my problem". Perhaps he should have thought about it a bit more, or at least made it detectable. Course, by doing so it would just be modified, but he got alot more heat on himself immedietely by having that kind of attitude.

I'm just glad modules can be detected by any user. Its already come in handy in 2 instances, its very easy to prove my network doesn't have it-check for yourself Smile

Now if they could just get rid of this module like they did +I, all would be well again. Oh well....can't have everything. At least this module is optional too-I wouldn't be too happy if unreal made this kind of thing standard Smile

Darkie · none Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 13

U brings in some good points there... I reckon you could even just bring it in and not use it... then for those who wish to plot those sorts of things and know of the /module command, you now have a deterrent. You may not even need to use it.

Then just threaten to delink servers and remove IRCOps who abuse it. Easy.

Sheik · Guest

I use a module on my ircd similar to this one, but admins can't activate only the user can activate it, its we call it carboncopy if a user claims he is being harras by another user we tell the user to type /carboncopy opernamehere then we can see all his pms and what he types on a channel, this is a very usefull tool for us to see if the user is lying or not, but other than that we can't activate it it has to be done by the user.

SdgNem · none Joined: 22 Oct 2003 Posts: 23

That is alot more rational than m_spy is.

Guest · Posted: Jan 13, 2004 10:38am Post subject: Re: umm

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

Yeah, but can a user use that command to spy on another user without the users permission?

If so, its even worse than the module-at least with the module only IRCops could do it.....

ShadowRage_ · Guest

this is why I dont use unreal, it's a very highly abusive ircd to users, which is wrong, I run a network and I find these kinds of things appauling. what people do in their privacy (even if it's on your net) is their own problem, and you're least likely to be liable than spying on them, and not catching someone doing something illegal, then you have nothing to back you up from being "involved" in their activities.

unreal is one of the least professional ircd's out there, and it's targeted towards small networks that are just because someone got bored one day.
for bigger, more dedicated networks, unreal isnt feasible. at all.

I know of another "ircd" that has shit like that, it's called chatspace..

it's a java chat server, but is irc compliant (so irc clients can connect to it) and it allowed the admin to control even what a user says.. same with irc+

I should make a list of "abusive" ircd's one day.

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

The IRCd is only abusive if the admin chooses to load modules to make it abusive.

Just as I said above, here is someone already assuming that if you run Unreal, you're using all this stuff. I have never used such modules and never will. Plain unreal (which is what I run) is not abusive at all. Its when you add certian modules that it becomes that way. You could have made that statement when +I was still around, but even then it wasn't-you had to activate the mode, and I never did-because I don't feel such modes are right.

But PLEASE don't make such a blanket statement about people running Unreal, because its a incorrect statement. Unreal as downloaded from the website without any additions does not contain anything abusive, it has to be modified to become that.

By the way, I average 1050 users, I wouldn't say I'm a small network, and the ircd works fine, with bandwidth consumption in the same area (for its size) as other "production" ircd's ran on larger networks. I've handled over 1200 easily with it, and it didn't hesitate or show any issues at all. I think it will work fine on larger networks than mine also. Just because you don't like the IRCd, you can't make blanket statements about it Smile

Darkie · none Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 13

Damn straight U. However I would like to say that just because we load the modules, doesn't mean we will (ab)use it. I am willing to load it, but only as a deterrent to potential evildoers. I will only use it if it is absolutely totally necessary, and as a netadmin will delink servers and remove opers who abuse it, because I, too, am against invasions of privacy. However, if a user is plotting to attack the network, or attack somewhere else, then I'd like to be able to dig up some dirt on them, and this module allows me to do that.

However I would never use it to spy on people. Users get bullied enough by netadmins and opers on other networks, and it's a trend I am not going to continue nor encourage.

Unreal rocks. Nuff said. But if people load those sorts of modules and uses them to spy on people, than those people suck. Modules like these only make Unreal abusive if they are abused. Module abuse will not be tolerated on my network.

My two cents Smile

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

Yeah I'm just glad that users themselves can check to see if modules are loaded in this case-then they can't claim that I'm lying about not having something loaded.

Ferg · Guest

QuakeNet CANNOT monitor like this and has no plans to.

The only reason we might consider it would be to help the fight against trojan drones. Unfortunately the legal issues associated with ease dropping on potentially real people are very complex and either way it's extremely unethical.

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

I think quakenet has enough issues to deal with as it is Smile

Ferg · Guest

heh, like what? Smile

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

They just re-suspended giving out more than 5 connections to a host because of abuse, for one thing Smile

With all the administrative fun they have there now, I don't see them adding random monitoring of users to the mix Smile