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GeniusDex
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Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Posts: 150
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 Posted: Jul 03, 2007 2:50am Post subject: |
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| nenolod wrote: | | No, I joined in to explain that their behaviour isn't so bad and that it's fairly common, but I do not wish to discuss what I view as structural problems in the Anope project as it is: (a) offtopic; and (b) would probably wind up getting pretty ugly. |
It's not offtopic at all. This topic even has "Anope development not very open" as title and you do not want to talk about why our project is not very open. If you do not want to argue or discuss about it, then do not bring it up in the first place.
As for it getting ugly, it would be your fault. I do respect criticism, as long as it's constructive and not just trolling and flaming. |
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ircmojo
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 215
Location: $HOME sweet $HOME
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| Posted: Jul 03, 2007 4:59am Post subject: |
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| Mestara wrote: | | Why is the dev channel not +O (assuming all are opers) +k/+i etc. It would certainly avoid possible confusion. May also have caused some hurt feelings by saying something along the lines of "dmb, this is a closed channel sorry, can you please leave and instead discuss whatever it may be in #anope" as since he joined he was obviously there. |
Because not all of the Team members are opers. YOURnet is not hosted by the Anope Team but the reverse. YOURnet hosts the Anope Support Channel.
Truth be told the development channel *is* +s, which last I checked meant "secret". That's clue #1.
dmb was kicked as soon as a team member seen them there, no explaination given, that's clue #2.
An Anope Team Member politely asked dmb not to join the channel again, that's clue #3.
Conlusion, instead of following the directions as dmb was given so they could offer support/advice/anything else dmb wished to add, s/he chose to whine and bitch about it and come running to SearchIRC to whine some more about it. To date dmb STILL has yet to follow the advice given. So bottom line is that dmb was never really interested in helping in the first place and if s/he was, gave up FAR too easily.
| nenolod wrote: |
No, I joined in to explain that their behaviour isn't so bad and that it's fairly common, but I do not wish to discuss what I view as structural problems in the Anope project as it is: (a) offtopic; and (b) would probably wind up getting pretty ugly.
For everyone's sake, it's better if I just don't go there. I hope you understand. I will simply say that the projects that I am presently involved in do not have secret staff channels where users get banned on join, secret mailing lists, etc.
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I fail to see how you can have enough information about the interal structure of this project unless you are/were a team member that has/had access to ALL of the uber-secret lists you claim they have. Perhaps, you learned of these channels/lists from someone that may or may not have been a team member and either assumed their contents or believed everything such a person told you because such information fit into your pre-established opinion of the project and it's internal structure.
Also based on many of the other threads here, This is ugly's breeding ground so this thread would fit right in.
So:
1> You really don't have all the facts because you are not/never have been a member to witness first hand the actual existence of nor the content of such uber-secret lists/channels.
2> You've been dealt a huge disservice as you don't appear in any credits, source code(other than a few patches that you submitted) nor on the staff page (new or old) as ever being an Anope Team member.
So which is it? |
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Mestara
none
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Jul 03, 2007 7:33am Post subject: |
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| ircmojo wrote: |
Because not all of the Team members are opers. YOURnet is not hosted by the Anope Team but the reverse. YOURnet hosts the Anope Support Channel.
Truth be told the development channel *is* +s, which last I checked meant "secret". That's clue #1.
dmb was kicked as soon as a team member seen them there, no explaination given, that's clue #2.
An Anope Team Member politely asked dmb not to join the channel again, that's clue #3.
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As i said.. Assuming all were opers. I don't go onto the network so I wasn't sure who hosted it at all. thats why i suggested some other possibilities.
#1 Yes, they +s it so why not +l or +k to just stop people stumbling into it anyway.
#2 just seems a little rude for people potentially wanting to help. saying "can you please leave and discuss whatever it is elsewhere please" for a project where contributions are everything might have people feeling like contributing more.
#3 after the fact, more attempts to stop it in the first place would just avoid the confusion.
In the end it doesnt really matter.. their project their right to do as they wish. |
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ircmojo
Lurker
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 215
Location: $HOME sweet $HOME
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| Posted: Jul 03, 2007 2:25pm Post subject: |
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#1 So far being +s has been more than sufficient, why take extra steps to prevent something that until now very rarely if never occured?
#2 Rude or not, that is the way IRC is. IRC has ALWAYS been governed by the will of the ChanOps, ChanOps have NEVER needed a reason to remove anyone from channel. It has been that way for nearly 20 years and it has worked well, why change it now? That actually brings up a few stupid points that I may add to another thread that I find funny which is that as IRC changes, so do definitions of terms, such as at one point is was never concidered rude to PM someone without asking .. now it seems you can be banned for it. Anyway, different story.
#3 As stated in #1, if it's never happened before, how would one know to take other steps to prevent confusion? I challange you to take measures now that may prevent confusion 10 years from now ... good luck.
Your right .. it doesn't matter .. the entire thread doean't really matter. It's all moot because as stated in #2, IRCops and ChanOps have never needed a reason to remove ANY user from ANY channel and personally I feel that if you can't accept that basic concept that has been common place for nearly 20 years, then you don't belong on IRC .. Full Stop. |
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