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w00t
Eleet
Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 699
Location: Nowra, Australia
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 Posted: May 13, 2005 3:07am Post subject: |
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I like to try most I can find  |
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Dr-Voodo
Eleet
Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 535
Location: IRC
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| Posted: May 13, 2005 3:10am Post subject: |
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It sure is alot of fun to try out new ircds  |
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w00t
Eleet
Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 699
Location: Nowra, Australia
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| Posted: May 13, 2005 4:35am Post subject: |
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| When can we expect an alpha olene? |
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angelic
Lurker
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 148
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| Posted: May 13, 2005 1:56pm Post subject: |
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| olene wrote: | | actually .. i just started it again. i was planning on taking a very long break from the computer to ease some stress.. but i think ive found a better way to do so. |
i'm really pleased to hear that
I know it may seem like you've been pounced on but honestly, this is a great thread, lots of good advice and info for people. Know that debates like this are positive. You don't have to be online to code When i'm pissed off with online (and come on, we all feel like that sometimes) i just close everything except kate and juk for a week |
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olene
Newbie
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 61
Location: olene on DALnet
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| Posted: May 13, 2005 8:02pm Post subject: |
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| If you wanna try it out, IM me on AIM (ircdcodergirl) or msg me on efnet (olene) and i'll compile it and let you try it off my local machine. I don't plan on releasing it until at least one server linking protocol works and is tested thouroughly. |
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nenolod
Idler
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 326
Location: A box!
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| Posted: May 14, 2005 10:39pm Post subject: |
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| magpie wrote: | | olene wrote: | | And no, you can't "have a bot". A bot isn't going to be able to match a hostname and disconnect it before it even connects to the network. A bot isn't going to be able to stop a user from being in a channel before they even join. A bot isn't going to filter or replace channel or user messages. A bot isn't able to filter spam that isn't addressed to it. And even if it could, a bot would be 10 times slower, even if it was connected locally. |
Rubbish. My original point was that in place of having regex channel bans (which seem unnecessary to me) could very well be replaced by having your own bot in your channel applying your own regexps. This has been happening for years. You're right in that the user cannot be prevented from joining the channel, but the user can certainly be removed afterwards. Also, where did this filtering/replacing channel/user messages suddenly come from? Of course a client-side bot couldn't filter private messages, but this wasn't suggested. Removing users that send a certain pattern of text to the channel, yes, they can do so. Personally I'm not a great fan of filtering/replacing text based on patterns anyway. |
Not rubbish. Regex filtering has been provided in Unreal via a third-party module (written by angrywolf) specifically for this reason. This is an unfounded troll.
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| olene wrote: | | Many people will find regex useful. |
Wrong, the vast majority of IRC users will not understand (or even have heard of) regular expressions, and for that reason won't use them. I suspect that the dozens of people you've spoken to are simply more savvy IRC users. |
Hmm, that's odd because I have seen ~R extbans used on many networks by many different userbases. Again, an unfounded troll.
| magpie wrote: | | olene wrote: | | If i wanted to, I could say tons of critical things about other IRCds. |
Yeah, you could, and you're entitled to. This is a public forum, if you don't like other people expressing their opinion (in a non-derogarory or offensive way, I might add) then don't post to a forum. |
This is a character assassination attempt, and thus is a defaming troll. She is behaving fully within forum guidelines. |
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nenolod
Idler
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 326
Location: A box!
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| Posted: May 14, 2005 10:44pm Post subject: |
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| braindigitalis wrote: | | Feature request: give us an ircd that doesnt require the .net framework or mono.... mono is awful imho, and a huge dependency. .net is ok, you get it with newer versions of windows, but mono, ew. |
How is mono a huge dependency? Oh right. It isn't. I'm sorry. Please try again. The only thing it is 'huge' on is memory use. The language an application is written in is irrelevant -- it is whether or not the ircd is reliable that matters. |
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olene
Newbie
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 61
Location: olene on DALnet
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nenolod
Idler
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 326
Location: A box!
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| Posted: May 14, 2005 10:59pm Post subject: |
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| w00t wrote: | So they're hugely inefficient. Yet we're using them in Unreal's spamfilter?
I'd assume that we're getting more data going through notice/quit/privmsg/part messages/whatever is spamfiltered than there would be in channel bans. (Normal circumstances are assumed.)Admittedly since they're user-settable rather than admin-settable, it'd be easier to screw a server up... But then, I'm sure passing every message through say, 50 different regex spamfilters is going to have around the same hit on performance over time, no? |
From what I understand, olene is using a JIT for her regex system. This means that regexes of similar nature are compiled one time, and then cached for later use. This means that after a small amount of overhead, the regexes won't be all that much of a hit on the ircd. Also, considering that this JIT regex code is running in a seperate thread, the performance hit is negligible.
Also, why are we discussing Unreal's spamfilter here? It's offtopic. |
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olene
Newbie
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 61
Location: olene on DALnet
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| Posted: May 14, 2005 11:07pm Post subject: |
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nenolod's right. I didn't wanna bring it up because it sounded ridiculous to me, but for some reason, matching a regex on my server (after the first time it is i matched) is faster than glob wildcard matching. (at least ever since i set the Compile flag on regexs).
In any case, I have yet to see actual proof that regexes are slowing anything down but the brains of people who have to read them. |
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nenolod
Idler
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 326
Location: A box!
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| Posted: May 14, 2005 11:41pm Post subject: |
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| codemastr wrote: | | olene wrote: | | Also, i found a speed increase by setting the compile flag on the regex's, which seems to make any subsequent tests (other than the first test) on a regex be <1 ms regardless of how complex it is. |
Once again, you need to think bigger. How many bans can be set on the channel, lets say 30. So I set 30 regex based bans. First of all, how you define "complex" may be different than what I define it as. You can have a regex that is 4kb long but is still efficient, and you can have a regex that is 10 characters long and is very inefficient. But lets ignore that and just go with 1ms. 30 bans * 1ms = 30ms per join. Flood with 500 clones and that is 30 bans * 1ms * 500 joins = 15 seconds of freeze. I still don't think that's very good... |
Regex checks are ran in a seperate thread. It only slows down the joining client. Also, regex checks are now JIT, as I mentioned before. Also, would you like a copy of fury.c for testing against Unreal? I have a feeling you might be revising a few of your posts in this thread... |
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magpie
Idler
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 454
Location: Essex, UK
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| Posted: May 15, 2005 6:23am Post subject: |
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| nenolod wrote: | | Not rubbish. Regex filtering has been provided in Unreal via a third-party module (written by angrywolf) specifically for this reason. This is an unfounded troll. |
Yeah, OK, I don't really see what Unreal modules have to do with the ability of a user's bot to match regexps to a joining user. If you honestly think that users' bots are incapable of that, fair enough.
| nenolod wrote: | | Hmm, that's odd because I have seen ~R extbans used on many networks by many different userbases. Again, an unfounded troll. |
Again, the fact networks support it doesn't mean users understand it. If you honestly think the majority of IRC users understand regexps, you're seriously out of touch with the userbase as a whole.
| nenolod wrote: | | This is a character assassination attempt, and thus is a defaming troll. She is behaving fully within forum guidelines. |
I never claimed she wasn't behaving within forum guidelines. My point was that if you're going to advertise your work on a public forum, you should be prepared for people to voice their opinions on that work. The fact that later on in the thread the ircd project was seemingly cancelled and then suddenly reopened is a good example of what I'm talking about. |
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nenolod
Idler
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 326
Location: A box!
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| Posted: May 15, 2005 11:23am Post subject: |
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| magpie wrote: | | Yeah, OK, I don't really see what Unreal modules have to do with the ability of a user's bot to match regexps to a joining user. If you honestly think that users' bots are incapable of that, fair enough. |
Did I mention anything about a user's bot? No.
| magpie wrote: | | Again, the fact networks support it doesn't mean users understand it. If you honestly think the majority of IRC users understand regexps, you're seriously out of touch with the userbase as a whole. |
I'm sorry, simple regex is fairly understandable: +b >(.*)
What does this do? It bans *!*@*! Also, you might not know this -- but regex can also be used for glob matching.
Will everybody make the most use out of such functionality? Well, of course not. But will it be useful to advanced channel users? You better believe it. |
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magpie
Idler
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 454
Location: Essex, UK
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| Posted: May 15, 2005 11:34am Post subject: |
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| nenolod wrote: | | Did I mention anything about a user's bot? No. |
Alright, I understand what's going on here now. When I originally asked "where did this filtering/replacing channel/user messages suddenly come from?" I was asking for a reference to the suggestion in this thread that a user's bot could do that (as I couldn't see one). Not trying to claim it didn't already exist in some ircds (and thus troll), which is what you thought I meant, by the looks of it.
| nenolod wrote: | | I'm sorry, simple regex is fairly understandable: +b >(.*) |
For you and I, maybe, but I doubt that for the majority of IRC users. Granted different circles will have different abilities, but I still maintain (through my own personal experience) that the majority of users will not - nor even care to - understand it.
| nenolod wrote: | | Will everybody make the most use out of such functionality? Well, of course not. But will it be useful to advanced channel users? You better believe it. |
I don't believe a claim to the contrary has been made, however I would question the value of adding features to the ircd that will only be used by a select few (relatively) of advanced channel users. Yes, you could argue the point that if the ircd is not intended for use on large networks then what does it matter, but again this is just my (not so humble?) opinion. |
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olene
Newbie
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 61
Location: olene on DALnet
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| Posted: May 15, 2005 5:26pm Post subject: |
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| magpie wrote: | | Again, the fact networks support it doesn't mean users understand it. If you honestly think the majority of IRC users understand regexps, you're seriously out of touch with the userbase as a whole. |
And 18 years ago, when Jarkko Oikarinen created ircd, i'm sure absolutely no one knew about, cared, or used /TRACE. Even today, only about 1% of all IRC users even know how it works. That doesn't mean that it's out of touch with its userbase, even today. It's an advanced command for advanced users. If we took out every command that stupid people don't use, we'd have Yahoo chat.
Just because you wont use it (or don't know anything about regex) doesn't mean that there aren't hundreds of people that won't. |
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