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brains
none
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 1
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 Posted: Jul 29, 2004 9:56pm Post subject: IRCD Services ??? and IP masking for users ??? |
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Hi Guys,
Just wondering if anyone can help me on this one. I have managed to download and install and configure Beware ircd lastest version. That was all fine. Then i realised that you also need the services to be running ie chanserv etc. So I looked it up and downloaded Bewares older version of the services and at first i was a bit confused on how to have it connect to the ircd server but i managed to work that one out as well.
Well as you probably all know we all look for the next challenge once you have solved the current one.... Well my current one is trying to mask and understand masking connecting ips to my ircd server. Which i would imagine solves the reverse dns lookup issues as well. Basically i want to know how to set this masking of ips up in the ircd.conf ???
im running beware 1.5.7 If anyone can help me it would be much aprechiate ...
Just learning !!!!!
regards
Brains |
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mouselike
Idler
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Jul 30, 2004 9:00am Post subject: |
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The user would have to type /mode theirnick +x to get the host defined in the ircd.conf like users.yournetwork.org.
They would have to also identify/auth sucessfully with a registered nick/account to nickserv (or other services) before or after setting the mode +x for it to work else it wont become active. |
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Plasma
Newbie
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Jul 30, 2004 7:03pm Post subject: |
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| Never heard of beware ircd, may want to try a more popular IRCd - www.unrealircd.com |
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mouselike
Idler
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Jul 31, 2004 7:48am Post subject: |
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| Plasma wrote: | | Never heard of beware ircd, may want to try a more popular IRCd - www.unrealircd.com |
as far as i know hes on about beware ircd (www.bircd.org) which is based on undernet's ircu in windows, though they do provide some modified *unix flavor its was originally only meant for a windows project.
Unreal is a popular ircd yes, and by far the most used, which is why id say for him not to use it, more problems (i.e bugs) tend to be found quicker, so more updates are being released, and have to keep track of it to update to avoid these exploits being used, its also cram packed with features that hardly little or no one uses all the time, its more for newbies who are setting out first time who have no clue and crashes a lot unexpectedly.
IRCu based daemons are rock solid, though bugs are found now and then they typically arnt as surviere as unreal ones have been in the past.
Though at the end of the day, its not what I or anyone else wants, its upto the admin what he feels most comfortable with. Some may like unreal, some dont, personally from a personal view and experience id say stick with ircu based or hybrid.
My appologies if there is another beware ircd out there that your using (with the same name?) that isnt the IRCu based one, as i aint sure if ive seen 2 different ones floating around.
My appologies also for any bad spelling  |
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aquanight
Lurker
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 118
Location: Boise, ID
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| Posted: Jul 31, 2004 10:24am Post subject: |
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| mouselike wrote: | | Unreal is a popular ircd yes, and by far the most used, which is why id say for him not to use it, more problems (i.e bugs) tend to be found quicker, so more updates are being released, and have to keep track of it to update to avoid these exploits being used |
Are you saying that's a bad thing for bugs/exploits/etc to be fixed?
It's true of any software: stay up to date  .
| mouselike wrote: | | its more for newbies who are setting out first time who have no clue and crashes a lot unexpectedly. |
I have to disagree here. I haven't had as many major crashes as you might think . And as for the newbies comment, well, let me put it this way: I've seen IRCds that are much easier to setup than Unreal (but not as good/flexible) . |
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mouselike
Idler
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Jul 31, 2004 3:34pm Post subject: |
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| aquanight wrote: | | mouselike wrote: | | Unreal is a popular ircd yes, and by far the most used, which is why id say for him not to use it, more problems (i.e bugs) tend to be found quicker, so more updates are being released, and have to keep track of it to update to avoid these exploits being used |
Are you saying that's a bad thing for bugs/exploits/etc to be fixed?
It's true of any software: stay up to date . |
No not at all, infact bugfixes are a good thing as it shows active commitment from the coders, but unreal is far from like ircu coders where they will fix a bug and not release a newever version until there has been sufficient changes made todo so, unreal discover one new bug a bug fix is released. What i am trying to say is, its better to disrput a network once every couple months than every month due to a exploit being found and an update required.
| Quote: |
| mouselike wrote: | | its more for newbies who are setting out first time who have no clue and crashes a lot unexpectedly. |
I have to disagree here. I haven't had as many major crashes as you might think . And as for the newbies comment, well, let me put it this way: I've seen IRCds that are much easier to setup than Unreal (but not as good/flexible) . |
Are you saying unreal does crash though (major or not)? IRCu has yet to core once amongst any servers on our network, nor has it managed to core on the network its mostly run on QuakeNet along with the base on undernet.
I admit defeat when it comes to your quote where other ircd's are easier setup, but any mature network wouldnt need to use unreal as it and its commands are obsured to any network with growing users not to mention the resources it hogs compared to a plain vanilla based ircd like ircu or hybrid.
Unreal is flexable because its like a toy, comes full of everything that isnt needed and will just sit in the corner growing dust... ok i know ircd's dont grow dust but its the logic of what i am trying to say, its full of pointless stuff that hardly or never get used.
The one thing I like about unreal is its block ircd.conf instead of using plain :Lines but to the newbie this is probably the hardest if they are new, though once they are passed this its all an easy ride from here on then.
Another point which i want to make is unreal is used amongst most of the smaller networks, yet very few ircu networks compared to unreal exist, being different is good, every other unreal network there isnt nothing different... unrealircd + anope + neostats, its just a duplicating network with different staff, network/server names and a few different aup rules. using ircu breaks the ice in the difference in unreal/ircu networks.
The same could be same for hybrid/bahamut networks... loads of bahamut not enough hybrid, each to their own and while unreal continues to dominate as the most used ircd id really like to see other ircd's become more used.
my 2 cents |
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Talrias
Lurker
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 163
Location: :noitacoL
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| Posted: Jul 31, 2004 3:51pm Post subject: |
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| mouselike wrote: | | Another point which i want to make is unreal is used amongst most of the smaller networks, yet very few ircu networks compared to unreal exist, being different is good, every other unreal network there isnt nothing different... unrealircd + anope + neostats, its just a duplicating network with different staff, network/server names and a few different aup rules. using ircu breaks the ice in the difference in unreal/ircu networks. |
Not that this really matters to the users at the end of the day... the only people this would affect are the staff. Still, we're currently using bahamut and we'll be moving to IRCu in the near future (after I finish our IRC services), so ...
Chris |
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Proto
Lurker
Joined: 23 May 2004
Posts: 150
Location: IRC
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| Posted: Jul 31, 2004 3:52pm Post subject: |
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| good post mouselike |
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mouselike
Idler
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Jul 31, 2004 3:59pm Post subject: |
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| Talrias wrote: | | mouselike wrote: | | Another point which i want to make is unreal is used amongst most of the smaller networks, yet very few ircu networks compared to unreal exist, being different is good, every other unreal network there isnt nothing different... unrealircd + anope + neostats, its just a duplicating network with different staff, network/server names and a few different aup rules. using ircu breaks the ice in the difference in unreal/ircu networks. |
Not that this really matters to the users at the end of the day... the only people this would affect are the staff. Still, we're currently using bahamut and we'll be moving to IRCu in the near future (after I finish our IRC services), so ...
Chris |
it does matter in someways as if every network runs unreal + anope + neostats there is no difference in them, which leads me to ask why the existance or why does all these unreal networks exist, why not just a few large ones here and there as there is no difference and all exist with the same similarities and features.
| Quote: | | good post mouselike |
Just another IRCu fan  |
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aquanight
Lurker
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 118
Location: Boise, ID
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| Posted: Jul 31, 2004 7:07pm Post subject: |
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| mouselike wrote: | | No not at all, infact bugfixes are a good thing as it shows active commitment from the coders, but unreal is far from like ircu coders where they will fix a bug and not release a newever version until there has been sufficient changes made todo so, unreal discover one new bug a bug fix is released. What i am trying to say is, its better to disrput a network once every couple months than every month due to a exploit being found and an update required. |
So you'd rather sit a few months with a serious bug/exploit, rather than have an immediately available bugfix? To be honest, I wouldn't mind updating/compiling/restarting an IRCd every other day if it means an exploitable crashbug got fixed (though I do tend to wait a few CVS commits before actually doing so , but that's only because I don't really run a server anywhere :/ ).
With other types of software, you can get away with waiting a little longer for a bugfix, and just know how to avoid it in the meantime. This isn't true with an IRCd. You can't "just avoid" a crashbug, because if you ignore, I'm sure some less friendly person will find it, and you know what's next there .
| mouselike wrote: | | Are you saying unreal does crash though (major or not)? IRCu has yet to core once amongst any servers on our network, nor has it managed to core on the network its mostly run on QuakeNet along with the base on undernet. |
You can't say a piece of software never crashes, never has a major bug, or whatever. It's simply unrealistic to expect a program (even an IRCd) to be flawless. You may not have personally encountered crashbugs in IRCu, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
You must also consider that IRCu has likely been around for much longer than Unreal .
| mouselike wrote: | | I admit defeat when it comes to your quote where other ircd's are easier setup, but any mature network wouldnt need to use unreal as it and its commands are obsured to any network with growing users not to mention the resources it hogs compared to a plain vanilla based ircd like ircu or hybrid. |
Unreal's commands are obscured? Maybe users just need to figure out that, hey, it has an internal help system. Let's go do /helpop ?chmodes so we can see how to stop those stupid channel CTCPs. Or something like that. Other than that, the more-or-less "standard' commands are pretty similar to any other IRCd .
As to hogging resources, well, that's why you get a dedicated server not just a shell.
| mouselike wrote: | | Unreal is flexable because its like a toy, comes full of everything that isnt needed and will just sit in the corner growing dust... ok i know ircd's dont grow dust but its the logic of what i am trying to say, its full of pointless stuff that hardly or never get used. |
Stuff that isn't needed? Maybe an example is needed here, as everything in the IRCd could come in handy (except maybe /addline ).
| mouselike wrote: | | The one thing I like about unreal is its block ircd.conf instead of using plain :Lines but to the newbie this is probably the hardest if they are new, though once they are passed this its all an easy ride from here on then. |
Maybe that's the point for it to be hard for newbies? So that they go and learn? Anyway, the block conf format also allows the configuration to be extensible via 3rd-party modules. For instance, AngryWolf's cmdflood module adds a config block to setup the flood limits for specific commands.
| mouselike wrote: | | Another point which i want to make is unreal is used amongst most of the smaller networks, yet very few ircu networks compared to unreal exist, being different is good, every other unreal network there isnt nothing different... unrealircd + anope + neostats, its just a duplicating network with different staff, network/server names and a few different aup rules. using ircu breaks the ice in the difference in unreal/ircu networks. |
I have to admit there's no point in having 4-something-bajillion identical networks... but what can you do really? But you can't say EVERY unreal network is the same . (Some use IRCServices. Some use Auspice (YUCK). Some don't have stats. Some don't have services of any kind.) Just saying everything is identical is a little unrealistic.
Besides, having different staff can actually make a big difference in a network. I'm not going to go there, however, because I 1) don't really have personal expierence there (see above ) and 2) it's probably too offtopic (heck, this is probably offtopic as it is :/ ).
| mouselike wrote: | The same could be same for hybrid/bahamut networks... loads of bahamut not enough hybrid, each to their own and while unreal continues to dominate as the most used ircd id really like to see other ircd's become more used.
my 2 cents |
Well, how many networks don't use services? In those cases, I agree that hybrid is ok, but for those that do run services, bahamut is better equipped. Hybrid was mostly designed for EFnet and other services-less networks. While services and IRCd choice sometimes have little to do with each other... you do need to use an IRCd that's compatible with your services of choice (or services that are compatible with your IRCd of choice ). |
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w00t
Eleet
Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 699
Location: Nowra, Australia
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| Posted: Jul 31, 2004 9:21pm Post subject: |
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A different IRCd doesnt make a different network, really.
Cmon fellas, it's not like it matters hugely. I've only gotten Unreal to crash... I think... 3 times over using it for 4 years, and that was when I did the wrong thing in trying to create something to server->server sync
Admittedly, it all comes down to personal preference, but I'd be the first to admit that the Unreal coders have done a hell of a job. Not just that, but they seem to like staying in fairly close contact with the community that use Unreal, even those who are on their first time configuring.
As I always say, it's the people that make the network, not the software. |
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mouselike
Idler
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Aug 01, 2004 2:14pm Post subject: |
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| aquanight wrote: | | mouselike wrote: | | No not at all, infact bugfixes are a good thing as it shows active commitment from the coders, but unreal is far from like ircu coders where they will fix a bug and not release a newever version until there has been sufficient changes made todo so, unreal discover one new bug a bug fix is released. What i am trying to say is, its better to disrput a network once every couple months than every month due to a exploit being found and an update required. |
So you'd rather sit a few months with a serious bug/exploit, rather than have an immediately available bugfix? To be honest, I wouldn't mind updating/compiling/restarting an IRCd every other day if it means an exploitable crashbug got fixed (though I do tend to wait a few CVS commits before actually doing so , but that's only because I don't really run a server anywhere :/ ). |
Id rather not disrupt the network ever time a new release is introuduced for one small bug fix, networks get a good userbase not just from the name or the services they provide, but also from amount of downtime and netsplits. If its a major bug or exploit then yes i would upgrade immediately but other than that a plain vanila ircd like ircu where it has less features they can concentrate more on the core than pointless commands where they need to be fixed, but like you said you dont run a server anywhere so updating constantly doesnt become a really problem for yourself or the worry of users getting cheesed off due to server restarts and splits.
| Quote: |
With other types of software, you can get away with waiting a little longer for a bugfix, and just know how to avoid it in the meantime. This isn't true with an IRCd. You can't "just avoid" a crashbug, because if you ignore, I'm sure some less friendly person will find it, and you know what's next there . |
If the ircd i were to be using were to core all the time due to a bug then yes i would set out to fix it myself and report it to the coders and wait for it to become fixed in the next release, however as i mentioned and you nicely pointed out ive not had any problems with ircu crashing as of yet unlike unreal where its crashed quite a lot, but ask your self if unreal was as stable as people make it out to be, why isnt it used on the largest networks, if it were to be as/more stable or better as it maybe than ircu why havent undernet adopted it instead... like dalnet adopted to hybrid base for the benefit of the network and its users? Its quite obvious unreal will always be buggy while its full of pointless features as the likes to a plain ircd; it wouldnt hold under the strain of the amount of users it would have to capictate for, big networks will always avoid large amount of features so i guess unreal is for the small or newbie networks to reduce the amount of bandwidth used and resources for that matter.
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| mouselike wrote: | | Are you saying unreal does crash though (major or not)? IRCu has yet to core once amongst any servers on our network, nor has it managed to core on the network its mostly run on QuakeNet along with the base on undernet. |
You can't say a piece of software never crashes, never has a major bug, or whatever. It's simply unrealistic to expect a program (even an IRCd) to be flawless. You may not have personally encountered crashbugs in IRCu, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. |
No i aint saying that at all, nor do i or ever will say a peice of code will be bug free, but there is a difference between an ircd that contains small amount of bugs to an ircd that has large amount of bugs, though ive not looked at the latest unreal source from previous experience of unreal a 10 year old could code better is all i am saying, but thats my own view on it. I know for a fact bugs to exist in ircu, some of which are running in the undernet branch which quakenet or some similar modified ircu has fixed, though i cant gurantee they havent introduced new bugs, so i cant defend that and hold my hands up but again as i said ive failed to see ircu crash otherwise.
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You must also consider that IRCu has likely been around for much longer than Unreal .
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I agreed, which is why old skool is sometimes the best, though old code can introduce new bugs those usually tend to get fixed quite easily.
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Unreal's commands are obscured? Maybe users just need to figure out that, hey, it has an internal help system. Let's go do /helpop ?chmodes so we can see how to stop those stupid channel CTCPs. Or something like that. Other than that, the more-or-less "standard' commands are pretty similar to any other IRCd .
As to hogging resources, well, that's why you get a dedicated server not just a shell. |
I never said obscured, i meant they are ridiculous and yep users should be allowed to find that out, but as i pointed out above why is it larger networks avoid more features, though i can see smaller networks dont need to worry about this, though is it any wonder why the ircd has so many bug fixes just to fix a single command where more time can be spent working on the core rather than features.
We did have a dedicated server along with others, and running a script that loaded thousands of clients on to each server creating random channels, topics and spam we introduced a netsplit then relinked them, with 10 servers running 1k clients each it was nice to see how well the ircd performed which was really a disapointment as if unreal wasnt this bad we were going to continue to use it as everyone seem to perfer unreal so it would have been half the battle then to get users and a few more links (dapated to the ircd scene so to speak). i dont have these figures as its going over 2 years ago since we tested but ircu proved a lot more worthy along with hybrid, we never made them official as it was our own experiement and each server would provide different statistics depending on hardware and badwidth.
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Stuff that isn't needed? Maybe an example is needed here, as everything in the IRCd could come in handy (except maybe /addline ). |
I have different views on this to others, you may use a feature or command that i feel isnt needed, but as you've asked most of the channel modes and usermodes i feel are a complete waste of time including halfops, either users have access to kick/ban people or they dont, its how irc started and its how irc should remain.... chanadmins, why have chanadmins (+a ?) if you dont trust your channel ops enough to have ops in fear of perhaps them doing a mass kick/deop then why op them, channel owners shouldnt have this protection, i could carry on listing but its pointless as i find 90% a waste.
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Maybe that's the point for it to be hard for newbies? So that they go and learn? Anyway, the block conf format also allows the configuration to be extensible via 3rd-party modules. |
If they arnt willing to learn they shouldnt run an ircd to begin with, RTFM comes to mind as well which most do not do, yeh the extentable block configuration is a nice way to add 3rd party modules on to, i never disagreed with this nor did i mention it?????
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I have to admit there's no point in having 4-something-bajillion identical networks... but what can you do really? But you can't say EVERY unreal network is the same . (Some use IRCServices. Some use Auspice (YUCK). Some don't have stats. Some don't have services of any kind.) Just saying everything is identical is a little unrealistic. |
Unreal + anope
Unreal + IRCservices
Unreal + auspice
they all exist in some form or shape, so yes i can say every unreal network is "Almost" the same, its nothing new to have the above combined, the only thing that alters the network is its genre, staff and channels, apart from that how can you say they are not the same as they are, saying they arnt i think is more unrealistic
Even if they dont run irc services, they are still the same ircd, same commands same features, same code/core, whats the difference i ask you again? nothing.
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Besides, having different staff can actually make a big difference in a network. I'm not going to go there, however, because I 1) don't really have personal expierence there (see above ) and 2) it's probably too offtopic (heck, this is probably offtopic as it is :/ ).
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I agree with you 100% here, part of my reply is above too
| mouselike wrote: | The same could be same for hybrid/bahamut networks... loads of bahamut not enough hybrid, each to their own and while unreal continues to dominate as the most used ircd id really like to see other ircd's become more used.
my 2 cents |
Well, how many networks don't use services? In those cases, I agree that hybrid is ok, but for those that do run services, bahamut is better equipped. Hybrid was mostly designed for EFnet and other services-less networks. While services and IRCd choice sometimes have little to do with each other... you do need to use an IRCd that's compatible with your services of choice (or services that are compatible with your IRCd of choice ).[/quote]
Again i agree with you as bahamut is less cram packed of features and provides a nicer base to work on or add features of the network/coders choice then rather than download an ircd with everything and have to rip it apart to remove unwated stuff which breaks more code than the worth of it.
Hybrid is however now compatible with more services and statistical services as its providing a better alternative ircd for networks regardless if its coded mainly for a network without services.
I aint trying to put anyone off from using unreal as i find the coders like codemaster very pleasant to talk to, they are creating what they feel the need to and are requested too as an alternative to others, but personal experience of an heavily modified 'Dreamforge' ircd like unreal has made me wondered off towards others. |
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w00t
Eleet
Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 699
Location: Nowra, Australia
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| Posted: Aug 01, 2004 6:15pm Post subject: |
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| mouselike wrote: | | Id rather not disrupt the network ever time a new release is introuduced for one small bug fix, networks get a good userbase not just from the name or the services they provide, but also from amount of downtime and netsplits. If its a major bug or exploit then yes i would upgrade immediately but other than that a plain vanila ircd like ircu where it has less features they can concentrate more on the core than pointless commands where they need to be fixed, but like you said you dont run a server anywhere so updating constantly doesnt become a really problem for yourself or the worry of users getting cheesed off due to server restarts and splits. |
^_^! Long post... Ok, my one point is, if you have a net, you just disallow new connections, rehash, and boiiing! when 0 users connected, down it and restart the new version. That's what I do |
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mouselike
Idler
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Aug 02, 2004 5:16pm Post subject: |
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| w00t wrote: | | mouselike wrote: | | Id rather not disrupt the network ever time a new release is introuduced for one small bug fix, networks get a good userbase not just from the name or the services they provide, but also from amount of downtime and netsplits. If its a major bug or exploit then yes i would upgrade immediately but other than that a plain vanila ircd like ircu where it has less features they can concentrate more on the core than pointless commands where they need to be fixed, but like you said you dont run a server anywhere so updating constantly doesnt become a really problem for yourself or the worry of users getting cheesed off due to server restarts and splits. |
^_^! Long post... Ok, my one point is, if you have a net, you just disallow new connections, rehash, and boiiing! when 0 users connected, down it and restart the new version. That's what I do |
And what if your server is hub to one or another server/hub... you still disrupt the network, minimal downtime and avoiding netsplits is something every network / server admin should do, though sometimes it happens you got to restart, but blocking connections could take a period of a day or two depending on how idle the already connected users are.... i personallly wouldnt want to just kill them or ask them to hop just for the sake of a restart.
That leads me on to the next point that a restart when using ircu is rarely needed as they tend to outwright a number of bug fixes first rather than the one or two at a time then release, there have been occasions where its been just the small amount which addresses more serious bugs, otherwise its a few months which gives us time to build our network on stability, something we couldnt do for every time a new bug fix is released on unreal for a simple core for using a mode or command. |
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Rob_
Idler
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 309
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| Posted: Aug 03, 2004 1:08am Post subject: |
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When a bug fix is released, you dont _have_ to update then and there, if you prefer to wait for a few weeks, months, whatever you can.
The fact you like the idea of not releasing a bug fix when its available is a little concerning to me, it sounds like that scheme MS had a while ago, update day or something. They would store up all the IE/Windows updates, and release them all on the first Tuseday of every month (or something like that, i didnt follow it very closely, i dont have windows :P). This idea sounds great, until there's an exploit for IE which gives people full access to your pc, but it was found on the 1st Wednesday of the month - you now need to run around with a exploitable browser for another 30 days, but thats ok, as it means you dont need to update frequently..... yeah...
p.s. im fully aware that using an exploitable browser for more than 30 days wont be anything new to 99% of IE users, just before someone comments :P
Rob |
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