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Steve_
Guest
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 Posted: Jun 28, 2004 7:52pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Forcing +x is pretty dumb anyway, as it will simply encourage the use of auto authentication scripts, something which QuakeNet tries to discourage for the protection of its users. |
Ok let me get this right Qnet dont want users using auto authentication scripts incase there compromised, (ever heard of a key logger) ok doki.
Thats all very nice but is not setting +x on connect and leaving alot of your users IPs/hosts hanging out not gonna make it easier for a hacker/whoever to compromise there Q auth!!!!!!!! Compromise there computer system... there whole computer system instead of just there Q auth !!!!
| Quote: | | Its not entirely important and any user who isnt on irc long enough shouldnt need to worry about +x, with the protection of a nice firewall and a virus scanner troublesome users can be faught off. There is pleanty of warning in the faq's along on the message board though of how to properly secure a pc, so +x is just an alternative fall back method for those who need it. |
So your saying something that would stop the hacker/whoever before he was able to try and comprise the Firewall other secuirty that maybe in place would be a mistake and would not help???
"any user who isnt on irc long enough shouldnt need to worry about +x"
How long you think it takes someone to dns a user, about 1 sec so any user planning on joining your Network and disconnecting right away yup i agree there safe.
"+x is just an alternative fall back method for those who need it."
Nope +x should be the first method to stop a hacker/whoever getting near your pc not a fall back method.
How can you fall back on to +x once a hacker/whoever already has your IP/host? What use would it be?
| Quote: | | we let users decide for themselfs if they want +x or not, this being they either set +x manually or they dont. We dont want to force anything on the users that they dont want, |
I dont think it really comes down to a point of forcing when its something thats gonna help them and they can set /mode nick -x if there using a bnc or what not.....
| Quote: | | As for users not knowing the URL to QuakeNet's website, perhaps they should learn to read. |
very helpfull and Qnet operator like reply
| Quote: | | IRC users on the large networks do you know that have common sense and the ability to think things through? |
are a large number of Qnet users stupid.. is that what your trying to say that people that like to use your network are stupid ???
thats not a very good point of view coming from a IRCop now is it, is it not your job too help as you say "your users that dont have the ability to think things through" by making there aware. |
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magpie
Idler
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 454
Location: Essex, UK
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| Posted: Jun 29, 2004 12:27pm Post subject: |
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Talrias:
Because it's easy for other networks to fake services, or even have it logged when the connection is being bounced. You should only authenticate manually when you're sure you're on the correct network.
Steve_:
Yes, I've heard of a key logger. However, compared to the other methods of compromising accounts, they're very uncommon (I've never heard of one being used). Due to the way in which QuakeNet use +x, there's no point forcing it on connect, it really doesn't provide you with any extra connection. Read the rest of the thread to work out why.
Most of these "hackers" are little 14 year old kids who download a trojan and modify it slightly. They then trick a user into visiting an URL which exploits a bug in Internet Explorer and hey presto, you're infected.
I don't really understand "So your saying something that would stop the hacker/whoever before he was able to try and comprise the Firewall other secuirty that maybe in place would be a mistake and would not help???".
You obviously haven't read the rest of this thread, I believe I mentioned you cannot unset the mode once it's set.
As to "very helpfull and Qnet operator like reply", how about growing up? If users can't read the MOTD when they connect, more fool them.
And yes, a large number of users on QuakeNet are stupid. This seems like a good time to quote Red Dwarf: "Like German tourists, the stupid are everywhere."
Finally, yet again you've failed to read the thread. I've already mentioned that QuakeNet, and indeed myself, are attempting to raise user awareness. Now I understand why you were so upset with my comment saying users need to learn to read. This has nothing to do with me thinking that certain users are stupid. |
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Steve_
Guest
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| Posted: Jun 29, 2004 3:18pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You obviously haven't read the rest of this thread, I believe I mentioned you cannot unset the mode once it's set. |
nope i jst disrgaurded it cuase yous have dev coders, and if you think most hackers on Qnet are just kiddies more fool you,
and who gives you the right to offend users that connect to the network by calling them stupid, you some kinda god ? you never do any thing wrong? |
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Steve_
Guest
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| Posted: Jun 29, 2004 3:33pm Post subject: |
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would like to find out how someone like you managed to get oper on Qnet as you act like a oper who dont give a crap, is it cuase yous got so meny users you dont care any more... no need to be nice any more your goal has been got.. ?
well opers like u that dont seem too give sh*t about users/your network should just set them selfs -O and walk away, let people that care to your places.. once you start thinking your better than your users/other people thats when you should mode your self -O and give up its users that make your network what it is..
think you should look deeply in to that magpie and ask your self some questions.. if i was in your place i would and i hope alot of people here will agree on that with me.. people on smaller networks work so hard to get users making it fun for them.. why should someone losed that way of doing things just cuase the network has got bigger...
in the end the oper that is more helpfull and takes pride in this network is the one thats going to get the most respect |
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mouselike
Idler
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 258
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| Posted: Jun 29, 2004 5:02pm Post subject: |
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| Steve_ wrote: | | Quote: | Forcing +x is pretty dumb anyway, as it will simply encourage the use of auto authentication scripts, something which QuakeNet tries to discourage for the protection of its users.
Ok let me get this right Qnet dont want users using auto authentication scripts incase there compromised, (ever heard of a key logger) ok doki. |
Thats all very nice but is not setting +x on connect and leaving alot of your users IPs/hosts hanging out not gonna make it easier for a hacker/whoever to compromise there Q auth!!!!!!!! Compromise there computer system... there whole computer system instead of just there Q auth !!!! |
As i stated, if users are not aware of how a certain chat medium works, then they shouldnt use it. Each network runs entirely different to another, so before connecting it does take *wait for it* a few minutes to skim through the faq and get a general idea of how quakenet runs things, requires users to be whilst connected and so on... my god how hard is it to read?
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | Its not entirely important and any user who isnt on irc long enough shouldnt need to worry about +x, with the protection of a nice firewall and a virus scanner troublesome users can be faught off. There is pleanty of warning in the faq's along on the message board though of how to properly secure a pc, so +x is just an alternative fall back method for those who need it. |
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So your saying something that would stop the hacker/whoever before he was able to try and comprise the Firewall other secuirty that maybe in place would be a mistake and would not help???
"any user who isnt on irc long enough shouldnt need to worry about +x"
How long you think it takes someone to dns a user, about 1 sec so any user planning on joining your Network and disconnecting right away yup i agree there safe. |
Agreed on that, but why would they need to worry about a hacker if they are running a firewall? Its obsured or sitting in their channel with just their clan mates, you join public channels then yes hackers are more at large and then the need for +x is at more of a stake for the users protection. Any sensible person using the internet would know running without a firewall in todays society is a risky chance.
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"+x is just an alternative fall back method for those who need it."
Nope +x should be the first method to stop a hacker/whoever getting near your pc not a fall back method.
How can you fall back on to +x once a hacker/whoever already has your IP/host? What use would it be? |
Its optional, a user cannot obtain the ip unless:-
1/ Your on a notify list of someone or of a hacker
2/ They happen to pick a nick and poof its yours and whois/dns it
3/ You join a public channel then the hacker(s) go from there
Be realistic, as i said above, a firewalled system doesnt need to worry about protection on irc, +x is if the user just wants to ensure his/her ip never gets out but your ip can be obtained via other means not just irc, but you seem to think and limit it just to irc, so yeh it is like a fall back method for the more paranoid if you want me to put it into plain context.
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| Quote: | | we let users decide for themselfs if they want +x or not, this being they either set +x manually or they dont. We dont want to force anything on the users that they dont want, |
I dont think it really comes down to a point of forcing when its something thats gonna help them and they can set /mode nick -x if there using a bnc or what not..... |
No they cannot set /mode nick -x so once its set its stays, so forcing it upon users who dont want it when they have they uber vhost they want to show off kind of blank points everything, not everyone wants +x, not everyone is as stupid to run online without some form of system protection to prevent intruding hackers.
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| Quote: | | As for users not knowing the URL to QuakeNet's website, perhaps they should learn to read. |
very helpfull and Qnet operator like reply |
What mag said was perfectly ok, if they cannot put 2+2 together then what response do they expect, the operators to run up with open arms and say there there, its ok we will forgive you or be harsh and let them learn from their mistakes. A 150k and above user network; i think the operators have more time todo other things than spend ages helping idiotic users with issues when its all explained on their website.
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| Quote: | | IRC users on the large networks do you know that have common sense and the ability to think things through? |
are a large number of Qnet users stupid.. is that what your trying to say that people that like to use your network are stupid ???
thats not a very good point of view coming from a IRCop now is it, is it not your job too help as you say "your users that dont have the ability to think things through" by making there aware. |
IRC in general has a lot of stupid users, not just quakenet, be it intentional or accidental, they are around and quakenet is no expemtion from it. If users dont have the slight ability to think things through then the internet isnt the place for them period.
| Quote: | | would like to find out how someone like you managed to get oper on Qnet as you act like a oper who dont give a crap, is it cuase yous got so meny users you dont care any more... no need to be nice any more your goal has been got.. ? |
QuakeNet didnt and never has had the goal to become the biggest network, they exploded by the great servers and services they provide as a gaming network with 0 tolerence against warez/porn not to mention their server sponsors advertising the network through their online services too. I can probably guess he had it by showing an interest in the network and learning to READ and UNDERSTAND the importance of how quakenet runs, operates and maintained, giving help and showing an understanding to the internet in general and *unix/bsd and irc its self, if you couldnt work that out then where is the common sense?
Ive found quakenet staff to be pleasant and very helpful, otherwise like you said why would they have had that so called "goal" met eh? users would of moved else where to another gaming network... common sense!
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well opers like u that dont seem too give sh*t about users/your network should just set them selfs -O and walk away, let people that care to your places.. once you start thinking your better than your users/other people thats when you should mode your self -O and give up its users that make your network what it is.. |
Repeating quote, see above for how good quakenet operators are 
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think you should look deeply in to that magpie and ask your self some questions.. if i was in your place i would and i hope alot of people here will agree on that with me.. people on smaller networks work so hard to get users making it fun for them.. why should someone losed that way of doing things just cuase the network has got bigger... |
QuakeNet is fun, size is nothing, if quakenet had a problem with opers like magpie they wouldnt have had a O:line very long, but seems to be ok, good work magpie and quakenet
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in the end the oper that is more helpfull and takes pride in this network is the one thats going to get the most respect |
IRC shouldnt be about respect at all, nor should any oper get any more respect than any other which is not the case here, magpie came here defending his network that he runs well with others, not to earn more pride. A oper seeking respect/pride tends to become the power hungry ones in irc and wouldnt want to meet on irc any day or help their small networks run/grow with users and channels |
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Steve_
Guest
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| Posted: Jun 30, 2004 9:28am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Be realistic, as i said above, a firewalled system doesnt need to worry about protection on irc, +x is if the user just wants to ensure his/her ip never gets out but your ip can be obtained via other means not just irc, but you seem to think and limit it just to irc, so yeh it is like a fall back method for the more paranoid if you want me to put it into plain context |
^ on IRC +x is not a fall back method like i said once someone "on IRC" has your IP addess becuase it DNS'ed you how can you fall back on to +x its crazy to think you could and yes firewalls are the defualt, Method of protecting your self on the "internet", and +x should be the default method on IRC, |
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Guest
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| Posted: Jun 30, 2004 9:30am Post subject: |
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and ps "you seem to think there only able to get your IP off IRC"
if you havent noticed all ready this topic is talking about the IRC side not the general Internet |
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magpie
Idler
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 454
Location: Essex, UK
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| Posted: Jun 30, 2004 11:54am Post subject: |
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Steve_:
Why do you bother replying to posts if you simply ignore ones by other people?
Again, you've failed to read my post. I haven't called every user connecting to QuakeNet stupid. I have admitted however that there are large numbers of stupid users that use IRC and QuakeNet. Don't believe me? Join any reasonably sized network and see.
I won't tell you how I got opered, it's nothing to do with you. You clearly don't know me if you can claim I "don't give a crap". Oh, and I'm a global oper, so I'd have to set -o rather than -O. :P
Who says I don't take pride in the network and help users that have read documentation and need further assisstance? Oh wait, you... |
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mouselike
Idler
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 258
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| Posted: Jun 30, 2004 12:23pm Post subject: |
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| Steve_ wrote: | | Quote: | | Be realistic, as i said above, a firewalled system doesnt need to worry about protection on irc, +x is if the user just wants to ensure his/her ip never gets out but your ip can be obtained via other means not just irc, but you seem to think and limit it just to irc, so yeh it is like a fall back method for the more paranoid if you want me to put it into plain context |
^ on IRC +x is not a fall back method like i said once someone "on IRC" has your IP addess becuase it DNS'ed you how can you fall back on to +x its crazy to think you could and yes firewalls are the defualt, Method of protecting your self on the "internet", and +x should be the default method on IRC, |
Whats using DNS got todo with anything, wow someone done a DNS on my host, lets see them run through the firewall, it doesnt mean anything, how creative to resolve a hostname or an ip & vise versa, but quite frankly as i said your safe enough with a firewall setup correctly, or is that not sinking in to your thick skull or what? hence the need not to entirely use +x
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and ps "you seem to think there only able to get your IP off IRC"
if you havent noticed all ready this topic is talking about the IRC side not the general Internet please think first, |
Right then the issue about DNS and all that crap isnt needed either then yeh, this topic was going friendly and with the idiotic response of some has turned it into a flair arguement thread, a few of us have explained how stupid, how to secure, how networks are run, but the urge for some to come on and argue with petty and irrelevant issues like DNS (oh my god there is again, the big DNS issue) its obsured. If a user wants your IP that bad they can get it, DNS only changes a hostname into an ip and, why would they want to DNS either when they can just use what is displayed in /whois already eh? quite pointless.
Now read and think before you post next time as the amount of bull***t you have come out with is unbelievable, and id like for this thread perhaps to turn back into a friendly disussion as it were/was before you came on. |
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Steve_
Guest
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| Posted: Jun 30, 2004 8:14pm Post subject: |
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mouselike if you dont like it then dont post here simple as that, and you saying oh look that guys got a firewall better stop, you could just say the same for +x oh that guys got mode +x damn...
there u go, i hacker would find it harder to get passed +x than what he might a firewall  |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1114
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| Posted: Jun 30, 2004 8:39pm Post subject: |
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With auto +x without auth inplace DNS wouldn't work and the hacker/kiddie won't make it as far as your firewall.
If you don't like the fact that hostmasking screws with bans .. then write better host encryption.
BTW, IRC is NOT the only place to get an IP .. true enuf .. HOWEVER, it's the most popular place to get them.
nuf said. |
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w00t
Eleet
Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 699
Location: Nowra, Australia
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| Posted: Jun 30, 2004 10:46pm Post subject: |
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| Well said katsklaw. |
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mouselike
Idler
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 258
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| Posted: Jul 01, 2004 3:35am Post subject: |
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| Steve_ wrote: | mouselike if you dont like it then dont post here simple as that, and you saying oh look that guys got a firewall better stop, you could just say the same for +x oh that guys got mode +x damn...
there u go, i hacker would find it harder to get passed +x than what he might a firewall |
I seem to recall i was the first to reply, and i didnt come back with a load of ****, so how about that goes for you too then ok?
| Quote: | With auto +x without auth inplace DNS wouldn't work and the hacker/kiddie won't make it as far as your firewall.
If you don't like the fact that hostmasking screws with bans .. then write better host encryption.
BTW, IRC is NOT the only place to get an IP .. true enuf .. HOWEVER, it's the most popular place to get them.
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Thats not only the issue here, DNS yes is one of the thinks +x stops yes, but it doesnt stop an intruder/hacker or account stealer does it? NO! |
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katsklaw
Guru
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1114
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| Posted: Jul 01, 2004 6:30am Post subject: |
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Thats not only the issue here, DNS yes is one of the thinks +x stops yes, but it doesnt stop an intruder/hacker or account stealer does it? NO!
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+x has nothing to do with account security so what was your point in saying it? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Jul 01, 2004 10:41am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | frankly as i said your safe enough with a firewall setup correctly, or is that not sinking in to your thick skull or what? hence the need not to entirely use +x
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Sorry dude but i really got to lmao @ that, so if you have 1 secuirty method in place you, shouldnt put another one in place you make your pc even more secure... hope your not working in the secuirty field any way dude lol |
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