What happened to this network..

Pierce · none Joined: 09 Feb 2004 Posts: 47

just had a bit of a strole over to WebChat today (WebNet as some may know it), was wondering what happend its 48k users? its now at like 7k users wtf???

anyhow, was also wondering, when a network like EFnet or QuakeNet has that many users, how many are botnets??

Pierce

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 692

Hi Pierce. We stopped indexing WebChat because they listed 30,000+ "service agents" that were neither bots nor users, but some sort of way to test server load, in their /lusers information. I know other IRC indexing sites either subtracted those users or stopped listing them completely for the same reason. If they've corrected the situation then I will reactivate the indexer for their network.

We have no idea how many bots are on any network because IRC code counts client connections and does not differentiate between the type of client - it could be a bot, it could be a real person on a unix client, it could be a user on mIRC, or one coming in through a java chat on a webpage. A connection is a connection. Although I don't know the official reason for this, I suspect its because bots serve a user-like purpose on IRC. They serve as channel operators that set modes and enforce bans, people can interact with them, and even message and dcc chat with most types of bots.

SearchIRC takes "fake user" situations on a case by case basis, but I can tell you we do not index the number of users on networks that have manufactured data (ie, coded in an artificially large number that shows in /lusers but does not exist), or use their services to generate psuedo-users, or load clonebots that are nothing more than names in channels, or links a p2p server to an IRC network and show those connections joining and parting channels. Users talk in channels, can move from channel to channel, and they respond to messages. If we see a large number of "users" who can do none of these things, as was the case with WebChat, we don't include that network's users in our statistics. Including them would not be fair to other networks, nor would it be fair to users who expect to join a certain size network and find they have been misinformed.

Plasma · Newbie Joined: 10 Dec 2003 Posts: 63

I reported GamesNET having fake user counts a few months ago, got a reply saying it was false... When I sent back an email proving they had to be fake (or 800+ users in no channel at all) I got no reply....

So whatever, you still may want to look into it.

magpie · Idler Joined: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 454 Location: Essex, UK

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 692

Plasma, I remember investigating your email. You saw a difference between the number of users in the listed channels, and the total number of users on the network. This is not an unusual situation on any network.

I just visited GamesNet again to be sure, and /lusers shows 39 users and 1288 invisibles with 485 channels formed. Only 83 channels are in /list, and of course the number of users in those channels falls far short of the total number of /lusers. I have no reason to believe those users aren't in any channels at all - the most logical conclusion is, those unaccounted for users are in the 403 +s channels not in /list.

If you have proof otherwise, then I'll be glad to check it out. I just don't see a problem with anything so far.

uchat · Idler Joined: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 335

Some ircd's (like ChatNet's old one) wont show channels in the list unless there is a certain number of users (most commonly 3), client settings cannot override this. I also think that some IRCu Daemons do the same. If I remember correctly this was done pre-NOQUIT times and used to prevent users from being flooded off due to a large /list return and to help conserve bandwidth.

Not saying that this is the case. Just offering a possible reason for a large user count and low channel count.

Plasma · Newbie Joined: 10 Dec 2003 Posts: 63

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 692

Plasma, yesterday I looked for networks of similar size to compare patterns. Most networks of that size have 300-400 people in their largest channels. However, I came across a couple that looked very similar. Look at these stats. One is GamesNet, one is not:

There are 41 users and 1367 invisible on 3 servers
2 operator(s) online
45 unknown connection(s)
452 channels formed
I have 488 clients and 1 servers
-
Current local users: 488 Max: 584
Current global users: 1408 Max: 2139

81 channels in /list, the largest has 55 users

---------------------

There are 10 users and 1632 invisible on 13 servers
29 IRC Operators online
508 channels formed
I have 307 clients and 2 servers
-
Current local users: 307 Max: 778
Current global users: 1642 Max: 2488
-
77 channels in /list, the largest has 54 users

On both networks the majority of users are +i, and the majority of channels are +s. That's unusual, but that alone does not *prove* they are fake users and channels.

Howard · none Joined: 16 Nov 2003 Posts: 34

It may be a configuration parameter, but the c/r installations I've seen before returned channels with >1 participant to non-oper types. In other words, you had to have 2 people in the channel before it would show in a list.