How do i get searchirc to stop crawling DALnet?

dot · Guest

Jason · Posted: Jul 04, 2003 3:54pm Post subject:

Dot, as I already said to you in email:

The only method to prevent your channel from being listed on
SearchIRC is the same method as on any IRC network, that is,
to set your channel to +s (secret). +p (private) will only
hide who is in your channel, and will not prevent it from being
seen in /list. SearchIRC is not the only network/channel listing
website. Everyone has the same method of gathering information,
that is -- taking what is publicly available, the output of
/list.

By having your channel available in a public forum, you are
knowingly allowing it to be available for everyone to see.
What you are asking for is similar to asking a telephone
company to list your phone number only in the phone books
distributed to your friends.

Jason

Dot previously wrote:

Guest · Posted: Jul 04, 2003 4:06pm Post subject:

SearchIRC isn't the only website that lists IRC channels, its just *The Best*. Did you stop to think about the thousands of DALnet channel owners who DO want their channels listed? You have the means to keep YOUR channel off /list so use it. Its /mode #channelname +s

dot · Guest

You're forgetting a few things. First off, If I copyright my topic like I am entitled to do, and expressly state in it that I do not want it republished anyplace off of the network without permission, as I am entitled to do, You can't republish it or you'll be infringing my copyright. It doesn't matter that its public, It's been copyrighted and you're acknowledging the copyright warning by reproducing the warning as well.

Guest · Posted: Jul 04, 2003 4:43pm Post subject:

Oh my god! I have channels on DALnet, too! Go ahead and copywrite your topic - YOU are the one putting it up there, KNOWING its going to be reproduced in the network channel list, KNOWING that netsplit.de and SearchIRC and any other website that utilizes /list will grab your channel along with the 40,000 others on the network.

Theres a great little feature on all IRC networks that lets you keep your channel of these websites, so stop whining and do what ALL THE OTHER CHANNELS do if you don't want anyone to see your topic - mode it +s

Jason · Posted: Jul 04, 2003 5:05pm Post subject:

You can copyright your topic if you so desire.

I have several points I'd like to make before you decide your channel topic is a big enough issue to take to court:

1) The whole point of +s is to keep your channel and it's topics out of the public eye. You CHOOSE to make it available to the public.

2) Copyright exists so that a person can "create an original expression and receive appropriate compensation for their efforts". In a court of law, how much commercial value can you place on your channel topic?

3) Your channel topic is being attributed to your channel. You will never see SearchIRC making a claim that your channel topic was written by anyone at SearchIRC.

I could continue on further on this topic, but I have a feeling you're grasping at straws.

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

I have a question also-if you're so paranoid about your channel being on a search irc list, then why do you have it on a large IRC network? If you're so concerned about your channel being exposed, you should put it on your own network, and tell Search IRC not to database your network. Thats the only real way you can prevent this occuring, you're using a public network to put your channel on, a network that I believe has an acceptable use policy and that policy likely gives them the right to allow themselves to allow websites or statistical gathering services to do so. Dalnet is a public network, not a private one, last time I checked.

Otherwise, you complaining to Search IRC is incorrect. DALNET allows them to database their network, not Search IRC. If you don't agree with DALNETs decision to allow this, you should switch to a network that doesn't. Dalnet authorises them to list channels, and Dalnet provides a mode (+s) to prohibit such viewing. I believe a court of law would view the fact that the network allows it and you know they do so, and the provision of a mode to prevent it from occuring would be sufficent-they would ask you why you couldn't use either. I know why, you don't want your channel in the /list. So you want people to see your channel in a list (the public) but not on here? Sounds like a contradiction.

Dalnet could easily prevent SearchIRC from databasing them-its called akill. They don't akill Search IRC because SearchIRC is not violating Dalnet's Acceptable Use Policy by doing so. If Dalnet didn't want them to do so, a simple addition to the AUP prohibiting such data harvesting could occur. They won't, because SearchIRC is a good resource for the IRC community at large.

BTW, Search IRC isn't the only site that does this either. So if you did sue them they could countersue you for singling them out-they aren't the only website on the internet that displays IRC network statistics.

If you're so worried about a public chat network displaying your channel statistics, I would suggest starting your own and password protecting it so only people you want seeing it see it. Otherwise, if you're on a public network, you're exposed to the public-plain and simple. You choose to use a public resource, intended for the use of the public, you will get public exposure. Don't want that-switch to a private network. A free resource I might add-I would think that since you get to use the resource free, you wouldn't complain about it-If you want the service to be perfect, pay for it yourself-you seem to want to pay the costs of copyrighting a topic-you can start your own IRC network with a $30 shell, a $10 domain name, and probably run it for $50 a month including website and domain name hosting.

I'm beginning to wonder also what this channel is and why you're so paranoid about it being displayed. It wouldn't be the fact that the channels topic and contents may be illegal by federal, state, and international laws, now would it? If it is, keep on posting, you know, posting to a public BB system about your channel just exposes it even more....... you could have just went +s and saved yourself the exposure. Now people will wonder about this channel of yours, and you will probably get more exposure than you ever could have just not being +s, because you chose to go to the "I'm gonna sue you card". GET A GRIP, ITS JUST IRC, if your product, service or otherwise is THIS important, why do you run it on a free IRC server? If you can afford attorneys and stuff to sue people, you should easily be able to afford your own chat backend, I would think. Or, maybe I'm wrong?

And if this channel does illegal activities, I emplore you to please copyright your topic. Forward a copy to tips@fbi.gov too, it will expedite the process of them finding you-if not, the copyright office probably will anyway as soon as they see it Smile

Guest · Posted: Jul 04, 2003 5:58pm Post subject:

dot, you are grasping at straws. Since its clear SearchIRC isn't targeting just your channel for publication, it likely isn't able to remove just your channel. So you want them to remove all of DALnet.

There are thousands of DALnet channels, including mine, that are very happy to be on a quality site such as SearchIRC. Asking SearchIRC not to list any of DALnet's channels because you don't want to be here is not fair to those of us who do.

The thing is, networks have a mechanism to keep your channel out of the public eye, and they make it available to all channel owners. All you have to do is mode it +s. Hundreds of channels on DALnet are secret, and some networks, like EFnet, more than half of the channels are +s. So you do have a choice here. If you consiously chose to put your channel and its copywrited topic in the public domain knowing its going to be shown on this site, you don't have the right to complain that it has been picked up right along with 600,000 other channels and their topics.

Larrice

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

The funny thing too is, if hes going to get every single person who obtains his topic for copyright infringement, he'd be sueing what, 30k people roughly? I would bet that every user of dalnet has at least done the /list command at least once.....

dot · Guest

first off, i'm a SHE. second of all. I think this services sucks. I can't believe i had to set 10 channels +s just to keep your stupid bots from finding it.

I would like to point out that since you to advertise on this site, (top right hand corner), and you are partly using dalnet resources to draw users, this is a violation of the DALnet AUP (using dalnet in anyway for any type of direct or indirect financial gain without authorization) and they can and probably will akill your stupid bots.

dot · Guest

And the layout here sucks, I can't see what i'm typing in ANY of the textboxes or what any of the buttons say unless I change my default text color to black. You're forgetting the 21% of users that have white on black schemes.

Jason · Posted: Jul 04, 2003 10:02pm Post subject:

Dot,

Thanks for the suggestions. We will take them into consideration.

Secondly, you should note that there are no ads on the search results, where the channels are listed.

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

Dot:

You're also violating the Dalnet acceptable use policy by slandering SearchIRC in your topic.

Perhaps you should reread the section of the acceptable use policy which clearly states that using topics to defame anyone or any entity is considered harrassment under its policy and can result in channel closure.

Your channel wasn't hard to find, a /list with 'searchirc' as a keyword utilized it easily. Anyone can go on Dalnet and do this, unless you actually finally went +s as you claim, but as of the time of this posting I was able to locate your channel with SearchIRC in the topic. Do you realise this also makes your "private" channel even more locatable now by having SearchIRC in the topic?

To quote from the AUP:

Harassment, as mentioned above, shall include, but is not limited
to, the following:

(*) Repeated unwanted communication to a user beyond that user's
reasonably expected ability to deal with the situation (e.g.
/ignore & /silence).
(*) The use of network resources to publicly (viewable from outside
a channel; e.g. in a /topic) antagonize, defame, or demean any
person.
(*) Transmitting, without consent, a person's private/privileged
identification and/or financial information. Examples being:
Real Name, Phone Number, Address, Social Security Number, Bank
Accounts Numbers, Credit Card Numbers, etc ...

I bolded the section I believe your topic is violating. Although SearchIRC isn't a person, you also mention one of the people on this BB by name in your topic. I won't mention who as anyone with a IRC client can find out, assuming you didn't +s to prevent your channel from appearing.

I understand you may have a problem with SearchIrc, but I would suggest that before you start making threats that someone is violating an acceptable use policy, you bring your channel into complaince with same AUP. As of this morning your topic is clearly visible to anyone who does a /list and is in direct violation of the AUP you also claim they are violating.

I apologise for referring to you as a he, but I can only go off the information that I saw on your post. I don't make assumptions that I cannot verify. I have no interest in your channel other than the fact you posted here and attacked people that I feel provide a good resource to the internet and the IRC community, and I was not going to sit back and let them be attacked by you.

I still don't understand what the big deal is about being listed, I wish you would at least explain why you don't want to be. I would think any person running a channel on a network would want to be easily found.

If you are so against SearchIRC, perhaps you should practice what you preach and not violate the same acceptable use policy you claim they are violating.

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 692

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

Yeah, who knows.

Shes not the only one doing it though, when I did a search this morning with keyword searchirc, I saw another channel, but all they said is that it sucks, I think.

Oh well. I just find it funny that people scream when they think other people are violating AUP-and they are themselves.

And if anything, I think her topic will help you guys-Its another place you're listed and people that don't know about it will wonder what it is and come looking-in essence shes providing you free promotion also.

Smile