|
|
| Author |
Message |
sliq
Newbie
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 92
Location: IRC
|
 Posted: Apr 11, 2004 1:34am Post subject: Unreal channel modes |
 |
|
| I'm sooooooooooooooo sick and tired of Unrealircd making new stuff that clients can't even understand except the certain few.. and in the first place WHAT IS THE POINT OF CHANGING CHANNEL MODES when EVERY IRC client recognizes the original channel modes! And at least, why can't Unreal compile a windows port without having the channel modes for all the people who are looking to start a network! I've been an admin for years and I can't stand not conforming to the IRC RFCs (from irc.org), if Unreal were to remove those channel modes I feel it would make the IRC community in general a lot more happy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
uchat
Idler
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 335
|
| Posted: Apr 11, 2004 8:16am Post subject: |
|
|
then don't use Unreal. Please remember that RFC 1459 is 14 years old. and such innovations have to be ratically introduced and then mainstream will catch up.
btw, I do believe that Unreal 3.2 has the ability to NOT use certain chanmodes and in the the docs it states that these modes are not supported by all clients.
Just think of the common everyday stuff, like colors, that we wouldn't have if we stuck to the RFC's verbatim. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Doikor
none
Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Apr 28, 2004 1:37pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Just dont use those modes then? Cant be that hard not to use them. Go to a network that has chanserv and set some mlock and *tadaa* |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted: Jun 01, 2004 2:59pm Post subject: |
|
|
| uchat wrote: | then don't use Unreal. Please remember that RFC 1459 is 14 years old. and such innovations have to be ratically introduced and then mainstream will catch up.
btw, I do believe that Unreal 3.2 has the ability to NOT use certain chanmodes and in the the docs it states that these modes are not supported by all clients.
Just think of the common everyday stuff, like colors, that we wouldn't have if we stuck to the RFC's verbatim. |
and it would suck arse if we was all like you whao im really sorry for that i was !@#$@#! with google and it bought this up hehehehe no effence :/
ps it came from here http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=unreal+docs+irc+mode incase you dont believe me  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
codemastr
Idler
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 353
|
| Posted: Jun 01, 2004 9:32pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | I'm sooooooooooooooo sick and tired of Unrealircd making new stuff that clients can't even understand except the certain few.. |
Umm, I don't know of any clients that don't support them. If only a "certain few" support them, you should be able to provide a huge list of clients that don't, so please do. But just to list some of the clients that do, mIRC, Klient, .IRC, vIRC, epic, x-chat, irssi, and ircle. Right there, that is probably about 98% of all IRC users. So I don't consider that to be a "certain few." It seems to me that a "certain few" clients don't support it.
| Quote: | | and in the first place WHAT IS THE POINT OF CHANGING CHANNEL MODES when EVERY IRC client recognizes the original channel modes! |
Not a single channel mode has been changed from the definition described in RFC1459. So again, you're making things up.
o - give/take channel operator privileges;
p - private channel flag;
s - secret channel flag;
i - invite-only channel flag;
t - topic settable by channel operator only flag;
n - no messages to channel from clients on the outside;
m - moderated channel;
l - set the user limit to channel;
b - set a ban mask to keep users out;
v - give/take the ability to speak on a moderated channel;
k - set a channel key (password).
Please show me which of those Unreal uses for a different meaning. They are the only ones RFC1459 lists. If you are referring to RFC2811, guess what? Unreal had those modes BEFORE RFC2811 existed! So if anything, *they* changed the meaning of the modes, not us.
| Quote: | | And at least, why can't Unreal compile a windows port without having the channel modes for all the people who are looking to start a network! |
Why is it my job to custom make a version of Unreal when you are the only person to, in my 4 years of working on Unreal, request it? If you're the only one who wants it, you recode it to work how you want, I'm not your personal coder.
| Quote: | | I've been an admin for years and I can't stand not conforming to the IRC RFCs (from irc.org), if Unreal were to remove those channel modes I feel it would make the IRC community in general a lot more happy. |
*laugh* from irc.org? Those RFCs are IRCNET SPECIFIC. NO IRCd except IRCnet's follows it. Hybrid, Bahamut, ircu, Quake, Unreal, Ultimate, and any other IRCd you can name do NOT follow it. And if you are tired of IRCds not conforming to RFCs, I could make you an IRCd that followed 1459. What would you be missing?
Part messages - gone
/join 0 - gone
WATCH list - gone
SILENCE list - gone
Usermodes would be +oiws
Channelmodes would be +opsitnmlbvk
Commands like /kline, /zline, /gline, etc. - gone
/map - gone
/knock - gone
Nickserv, ChanServ, etc. - gone (They require SVS* commands, and RFC1459 doesn't mention them)
And many, many more things that people have come to love
So lets see, if you had your way, IRC would be an outdated piece of crap!
You do *NOT* represent what the IRC community wants, you represent what *YOU* want. You are the only person in my 7 years on IRC (5 of which I spent as an IRCd coder), that has ever asked for these things. It seems to me, no one else wants IRC to go back to 1989.
P.S., I find it funny that you've "been an admin for years" yet you're looking for a Windows port. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
uchat
Idler
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 335
|
| Posted: Jun 01, 2004 9:38pm Post subject: |
|
|
very well said codemastr. you just saved me a bunch of typing  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DjMadness-
Newbie
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 70
|
| Posted: Jun 04, 2004 1:13pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Well formed there codemastr |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zeke
Idler
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 288
|
| Posted: Jun 04, 2004 11:23pm Post subject: |
|
|
wat, mistah codemastr, is wron wif runeenk a mirc network on windows? afta all, windows is teh l33t os! my windowz will beat your linux and unix and mac to da ecurb!
</sarcasm>
i agree, very well said |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sliq
Newbie
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 92
Location: IRC
|
| Posted: Jun 05, 2004 4:44pm Post subject: lies |
|
|
codemastr:
1) i'm not personally looking for a port of a shitty ircd.
2) unreal is for power hungry admins in my opinion.
3) hybrid is wayyyyyyyyy more sutible for my needs.
4) i'm complaining because i find some of the new features of Unreal annoying, I liked the original Unreal series, If I were to scale 3.2 i'd give it like a 4/10 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
codemastr
Idler
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 353
|
| Posted: Jun 05, 2004 5:30pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | 1) i'm not personally looking for a port of a shitty ircd. |
We're not talking about a shitty IRCd, we're talking about Unreal. What you are looking for is a port of Hybrid using cygwin. Unreal is the only IRCd that has taken the time to make a Windows version that runs using the native Windows system. Everyone else just says "screw Windows users" and just chucks it into Cygwin and distributes a semi-working slow IRCd. If that's what you want, then go with Hybrid!
| Quote: | | 2) unreal is for power hungry admins in my opinion. |
There are maybe 2-3 things that could be deemed abusive that Unreal gives admins the ability to do that other IRCds don't. And, none of those features were designed to be abusive. Why was sethost added? Because not everyone can afford to spend $10/month on a BNC. We felt it was ridiculous that IRC users have to go out and pay for a shell account just to have the hostname they wanted. So we said, lets be nice to the users and allow them to do it for free. If someone decides to use it for abuse, that is their problem. It's like saying "knives are abusive because sometimes people use them to kill." It wasn't designed to be abusive, people who use it to abuse are misusing it.
| Quote: | | 3) hybrid is wayyyyyyyyy more sutible for my needs. |
That's great, go use it then. But don't come here and LIE about what Unreal does and doesn't do. If you don't like Unreal, then by all means, use something else. But don't make stuff up, then come here and post your lies.
| Quote: | | 4) i'm complaining because i find some of the new features of Unreal annoying, I liked the original Unreal series, If I were to scale 3.2 i'd give it like a 4/10 |
Well then I'm glad our 5000 users disagree with you! I've received maybe 3 complaints about 3.2. And those complaints were regarding the new config file. So all in all, you are the only person who has ever complained about it in general. Also, in all your comments here, you've yet to really point out a single thing that you dislike about Unreal, other than your made up "it changes the channel modes" stuff.
Oh by the way, since you love the RFC so much, why do you use an IRCd, Hybrid, that probably breaks the RFC just as much as Unreal? Where does the RFC mention halfops? Where does it mention virtual channels? Callerid (/accept)? anonymous ops (cmode +a)? Challenge-response oper logins? And speaking of changing channel modes:
RFC1459: p - private channel flag;
RFC2811: p - toggle the private channel flag;
Hybrid: p - restricts /knock and determines whether halfops can +/-h.
Seems to me like Hybrid is the one that changes what channel modes mean, not Unreal. I could go on and on about the various ways Hybrid breaks the RFC. So don't come here and say "I want an IRCd that follows the RFC, therefore I hate Unreal" and then say "I use Hybrid," because it just proves your either a liar, or a hypocrite.
If you hate Unreal, don't use it. But don't come and make up lies about it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sliq
Newbie
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 92
Location: IRC
|
| Posted: Jun 06, 2004 4:11am Post subject: you're not getting me. |
|
|
| Quote: | | What you are looking for is a port of Hybrid using cygwin |
I DON'T WANT A WINDOWS PORT OF ANYTHING CODEMASTR.
WINDOWS IRCDs ARE CRAP.
In relation to your hostmasking, spoofing hostnames is the only good feature of Unreal in my opinion. However, adding features like new channel modes, being able to see who /whois es you, and having just about every network that runs Unreal use them is quite annoying, that was the whole point of my rant. I don't want to use Unreal and never will. The only good versions of your IRCd were pre-3.2
| Quote: |
That's great, go use it then. But don't come here and LIE about what Unreal does and doesn't do. If you don't like Unreal, then by all means, use something else. But don't make stuff up, then come here and post your lies. |
I'm lieing now? ahahahahaha
I'm simply debating why Unreal isn't a good IRCd.
I don't mean for you or the Unreal team to take offense to it, I'd just like to see some changes, such as making it clearer to people who compile your IRCd in a linux enviroment about the ~ and & modes. I and I know a bunch of other old-time IRC users look down on every network that uses them.
| Quote: |
Oh by the way, since you love the RFC so much, why do you use an IRCd, Hybrid, that probably breaks the RFC just as much as Unreal? Where does the RFC mention halfops? Where does it mention virtual channels? Callerid (/accept)? anonymous ops (cmode +a)? Challenge-response oper logins? And speaking of changing channel modes:
RFC1459: p - private channel flag;
RFC2811: p - toggle the private channel flag;
Hybrid: p - restricts /knock and determines whether halfops can +/-h.
|
Hybrid doesn't use +h by default, nor does it use +a by default, you must activate them in config.h on compile.
* a is not a valid channel mode
* h is not a valid channel mode |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
uchat
Idler
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 335
|
| Posted: Jun 06, 2004 5:54am Post subject: |
|
|
sliq
If you don't like Unreal .. don't use it.
If you like Hybrid ... use it.
You stated your opinion and that opinion is respected. However, continuing to argue your point is futile and it wastes resources that are not yours to waste. It obvious that Unreal is the most popular IRCd in the world. So there is a few people that like something you don't ... big deal! Who really cares? I don't.
I've always said that if you don't like something ... code it yourself. That goes for everything ... clients, daemons ... even OS's
There is a difference in simply stating or debating an opinion, which you have done, and arguing over something that will not change. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
codemastr
Idler
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 353
|
| Posted: Jun 06, 2004 10:58am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | I'm lieing now? ahahahahaha
I'm simply debating why Unreal isn't a good IRCd.
I don't mean for you or the Unreal team to take offense to it, I'd just like to see some changes, such as making it clearer to people who compile your IRCd in a linux enviroment about the ~ and & modes. I and I know a bunch of other old-time IRC users look down on every network that uses them. |
Right from the Config question:
Do you want to enable prefixes for chanadmin and chanowner?
This will give +a the & prefix and ~ for +q (just like +o is @)
Supported by the major clients (mIRC, xchat, epic, eggdrop, Klient, PJIRC, etc.)
with the notable exceptions of irssi, KVIrc and CGI:IRC.
This feature should be enabled/disabled network-wide.
Please tell me what exactly is unclear about that, and I'll be glad to change it. But reading it over again, it seems to say exactly what it should. It lets you enable the & and ~ prefixes for +a and +q. I don't see anything that is confusing.
| Quote: | I DON'T WANT A WINDOWS PORT OF ANYTHING CODEMASTR.
WINDOWS IRCDs ARE CRAP. |
Your first post says, "And at least, why can't Unreal compile a windows port without having the channel modes for all the people who are looking to start a network!" If an IRCd on Windows is "crap" why should we bother making such a version? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sliq
Newbie
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 92
Location: IRC
|
| Posted: Jun 06, 2004 11:51am Post subject: reason to compile unreal without ~ and & |
|
|
so that all the newbee networks that start up don't have these ridiculous modes, why make it a default when it's an optional mode in the first place on *nix ?
personally, i don't stay on just my own network, i travel around to different networks, and the modes get on my nerves, and what is the reason for the modes? it's default in the windows compile.
at least compile two different versions and let those n00bs get a choice. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
codemastr
Idler
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 353
|
| Posted: Jun 06, 2004 11:55am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | so that all the newbee networks that start up don't have these ridiculous modes, why make it a default when it's an optional mode in the first place on *nix ? |
If it were up to me, it would not be optional. The fact that it is optional only leads to problems.
| Quote: | | personally, i don't stay on just my own network, i travel around to different networks, and the modes get on my nerves, and what is the reason for the modes? it's default in the windows compile. |
Because if a guy shows as "someguy" in the nicklist, and has the ability to /kick, people get confused. If it says "&someguy" then it makes sense.
| Quote: | | at least compile two different versions and let those n00bs get a choice. |
MSVC++ is a free compiler, if they want to change the options, they are free to recompile it themselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| |
Register
Log in
