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sliq
Newbie
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 92
Location: IRC
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 Posted: Jun 08, 2004 4:04am Post subject: bleh |
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| Quote: | Power, Control, Domination.
IRC is becoming everything it was setup to break away from. You all seem to be forgetting the one key goal of IRC, communication. IRC is not about limiting user’s freedom or keeping them on a tight leash, users connect to IRC to communicate and I am the first to admit some aspect of control is needed to keep things running smoothly. But however it seems over the past year or so there have been more developments to the control aspect of IRCd's such as new usermodes, channelmodes and so on and hardly any development of the CORE aspect of any IRCd, safe, fast and stable data transfer.
Let’s get back to basics here ladies and gentlemen. |
^^ ever see that codemastr? |
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Kisdead
none
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Jun 08, 2004 7:01am Post subject: Re: bleh |
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| sliq wrote: | | ...the one key goal of IRC, communication. IRC is not about limiting user’s freedom or keeping them on a tight leash, users connect to IRC to communicate... |
Well, they do connect to communicate, but a growing percentage comes to the popular chat networks to piss (or try to piss) up people who can be pissed up by rude or raw behaviour. They are peaceful chatters who only want to have fun - but they can't because some idiot comes in and flood all big channels with aggressive text. They can do nothing about it, no one can.
If someone doesn't want to use advanced ban/flood options or channel modes, he won't. It's an option. |
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sliq
Newbie
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 92
Location: IRC
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| Posted: Jun 08, 2004 12:46pm Post subject: other ways |
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welcome to our little discussion 
there are many ways to do this that do not require "special" modes that you speak of. i use different services packages such as anope with sentinel, etc to make sure that I can do anything necessary, and it makes sure that certain people can't do certain things.
urix even as a server admin doesn't want oper access to a server, it's not because he doesn't know what he's doing, it's because he knows everything about how everything works and would rather not get involved with user problems.
there are reasons that o:lines are "optional" in IRCds, part of that being, you can make modifications to an IRCd to settle any issues with attacks, etc. you yourself don't have to be opered up to settle issues. |
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urix
Guest
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| Posted: Jun 08, 2004 3:58pm Post subject: |
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I think this topic is getting quite out of hand, it seems to have side tracked off the main issue and people are taking snide digs at each other every chance they get and this is no longer a discussion but a tactful slanging match, so let’s stop that right now.
We are here to share opinions and suggestions and everyone is entitled to take part and input useful knowledge. I have been using IRC for many years now and I know a lot of the ins and outs of the IRC community and the software that holds it together, but even now I am still learning, so when I see people post things like this.
| Quote: | | urix even as a server admin doesn't want oper access to a server, it's not because he doesn't know what he's doing, it's because he knows everything about how everything works and would rather not get involved with user problems. |
I view it as an arrogant, simple minded post.
And that’s not a dig at Alex that’s just my opinion.
You learn something new everyday and that’s the beauty of something you can change such as an IRCd, if you find there is a better way to do something you can change it, if you learn that something is no longer needed you can remove it and if you see something new you can add it. It’s all part of furthering development of IRCd's.
Let’s get back on track with this topic ladies and gentlemen and use it to HELP the development of Unreal. |
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djcrash
none
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Jun 09, 2004 10:31am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Unreal is designed to be an advanced IRCd that is difficult to use. And it is both of those things. |
An "advanced" IRCd with a Windows port does not exist. And your comment on support for Unreal is completly pointless, because most of the people who decide to use Unreal aren't experienced with running a server of ANY kind much less an IRC server! The people who are attracted to Unreal are the beginners, which has nothing wrong with that except that you make it so easy to setup that i've seen users who have no expierence as an IRC USER, much less an admin, which is why no one wants you to remove anything, they haven't seen how IRC is supposed to be. |
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codemastr
Idler
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 353
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| Posted: Jun 09, 2004 10:42am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | An "advanced" IRCd with a Windows port does not exist. |
*laugh*. Nevermind, I'm tired of arguing with the foolishness of you guys. You hate Unreal? Don't use it. Problem solved. |
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DanielShafer-
Guest
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| Posted: Jun 09, 2004 9:48pm Post subject: |
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hehe...I had a real kick out of this topic. Someone my network pointed it out to me beause the strangest thing is happening to me  .
Codemastr, u remember me right? On Anope's channel, saying how much I disliked UnrealIRCd, and stuff. Well check this out, my network is about to aquire a new network name, and we want to make our own IRCd for our change. But guess what IRCd me and my admins decided to use as a base? Unreal 3.2 . We dont like some of the features, so we are going to remove them. But see, thats the best part of IRCd's. All IRC'ds (at least I think all) are open source and free. Now since you seem pretty retarded to realize what that is. Let me explain this:
Open source is when a program shows the source openly, giving anyone who wants, the chance to change or edit the source, add, or delete, or anything you please. Some places wont give support for modified source, but then again, how can they help when they didnt put the code in it. So ya, your modifying your hybrid. Good for you. I tryed using that as a base, I love hybrid, and the code was pretty hard though, and in order for my ircd coders, which is basically me and my admin Chris, to add all the features we wanted, it would take over a year. So ya, you need to REMEMBER that.... You dont like the channel modes? Then take them out.
As for Unreal being for newbs...Honestly, Isnt that the point of software now a days? I mean who wants a program thats impossible to compile. IRCu is technically the hardest ircd to compile to me, although its easy now, but let alone the hardest to newbs.
Another thing, DO NOT bring the config into this discussion either, because the hybrid config, and unrealircd config are just about the same type. They both have the same look. All in blocks.
As for abusive commands, I used to always complain about this, but I guess i realized the trueness to this. As codemastr earlier stated, only the abusive admins can make a command abusive. So if you find someone "abusing" a command, dont blame the ircd, and dont blame the coders, blame the ADMIN THATS DOING IT.
So ya, here I am standing up for an IRCd I "used" to hate, but one thing I cant stand, is the fact of the matter here. Do you KNOW how much codemastr, or stskeeps, or ShadowMaster(ultimate), or the bahamut team, or hybrid team, get paid for this? NOTHING! They spend hours of there life doing this, for free, they never charge for ircd support. And usually keep patience with you, even though this all free.
So take your complaints to someone who cares, cause NO ONE in this forums, site, world, cares. Made my statement |
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uchat
Idler
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Jun 09, 2004 11:21pm Post subject: |
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Unreal IRCd is the only IRCd that I know of that you can completely remove commands from the IRCd WITHOUT having to know any C at all. If you are like me then you hate the forced joins/parts/nick changes etc .. what did I do? I disabled them conpletely .. they do not exist on my IRCd.
How did I do it? Glad you asked.
Simply put; (in your unrealircd.conf)
| Code: |
loadmodule "modules/m_*.so";
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in place of
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loadmodule "modules/commands.so";
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Then I went into the modules directory and renamed all the commands I didn't want to use. Example m_sajoin.so renamed to m_sajoin.old. I continued to do so until I got all the commands that I don't like out of UnrealIRCd. Guess what ... it's not a power hungry IRCd anylonger ... wow imagine that. Imagine what else can be learned by reading ALL the documentation.
Unreal can be as advanced or as basic as you want and NOT know a thing about coding. No other IRCd that I have encountered allows this kind of flexability. Perhaps this is the REAL reason nearly 50% of the Net Admins registered with SearcIRC use Unreal. Check out http://searchirc.com/ircd-versions if you don't believe me.
Dont like the ~ and & prefixes? then choose No (default option on *nix) in the ./Config.
Run Windows? ... no problem read http://www.vulnscan.org/UnrealIrcd/faq/#31 to learn how to disable it in windows.
I'm tired of you people that say "unreal sucks because of X command/reason". Disable X command/reason and get on with your life! As codmastr and I have said ... don't like Unreal ... then don't use it. I too was originally against Unreal until I started toying with the configuration and found that it was ok for me to not like it .. because it was up to me what commands or level of power was to be used. Now I can't see using any other IRCd. Unreal just makes sence. |
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Thrall
none
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Jun 10, 2004 6:02am Post subject: ffs |
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sliq, you're a [deleted]. nothing else to say here.
codemastr, you've done a great job with unreal. personally not my favourite ircd, but even so, alot of work and efford's been put into Unreal. |
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sliq
Newbie
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 92
Location: IRC
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| Posted: Jun 10, 2004 9:51am Post subject: thrall |
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| Quote: | | sliq, you're a [deleted]. nothing else to say here. |
Thrall, you have no right to judge me. [deleted]. |
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uchat
Idler
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Jun 10, 2004 1:58pm Post subject: |
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| Thrall, as a fellow poster I'd like to remind you about the forum rules regarding personal attacks .. you may wish to check the rules out located at http://searchirc.com/forum-rules.php |
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djcrash
none
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Jun 10, 2004 2:45pm Post subject: |
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| somehow this topic went from why Unreal is changing stuff that shouldnt be messed with to personal attacks, hello, take a step back people and stop bickering with each other. I agree that the development team for Unreal has put major effort into their IRCd and they have put up with constant questions from IRC idiots wanting to know why they cant run wircd.exe on linux, but should those people be running servers anyway? In my opinion they should learn more about IRC before even attempting to run an IRCd, and Unreal primarily is making it all too easy for people like that to run and configure servers before they learn what IRC really IS and how to be a responsible admin. |
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sliq
Newbie
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 92
Location: IRC
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| Posted: Jun 10, 2004 2:59pm Post subject: amen |
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amen crash.  |
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uchat
Idler
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Jun 10, 2004 3:37pm Post subject: |
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| djcrash wrote: | | somehow this topic went from why Unreal is changing stuff that shouldnt be messed with to personal attacks, hello, take a step back people and stop bickering with each other. I agree that the development team for Unreal has put major effort into their IRCd and they have put up with constant questions from IRC idiots wanting to know why they cant run wircd.exe on linux, but should those people be running servers anyway? In my opinion they should learn more about IRC before even attempting to run an IRCd, and Unreal primarily is making it all too easy for people like that to run and configure servers before they learn what IRC really IS and how to be a responsible admin. |
IRC newbies use IRCd's of all sorts .. not just Unreal. In fact .. I know some admins personally that think Unreal is too complicated and stick with IRCu or Bahamut 1.4.36 and older simply because it uses a traditional IRCd conf file. |
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sliq
Newbie
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 92
Location: IRC
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| Posted: Jun 10, 2004 3:42pm Post subject: admins |
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that just shows that they are used to a different configuration, if you get used to something, you would like to stick with the way it works.
"there is no need to fix something that isn't broke"
if i liked the old style, which i somewhat do, i'd like to continue using it. |
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