Small Networks, Is it worth bending over to Link?

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

Though I wouldn't mind my network getting bigger, I don't personally go trolling for channels. I would prefer my users bring thier friends, who bring thier friends, and so on.

As for warez channels, if they want to come to my network thats fine, but I don't go specificially looking for them. Nothing against them, but alot of them seem to become targets for spamming and abuse. I get plenty of that as it is, but the ratio of it seems to climb when you get alot of them.

There is also the simple fact I don't go hunting for channels period. Alot of these 'smaller networks' also get channels by making promises to them "I'll give you IRCops" being the first one. Not for nothing, but I don't know if thats the best practice-if you tick that channel off they could very well put your network into some serious hurt. Its not that I don't have IRCops in channels on my network, but they got them after being around a while, not just because they moved a channel over with 10 users in it.

I just keep a stable network going for who I have, and it slowly grows by word of mouth. Thats better to me-someday a warez channel will probably discover us and the network will probably climb a bit quicker in usercount, but then I'll probably also have to up my staffing levels to meet the abuse demand. I'll wait till it happens naturally instead of inducing it. Not to say I wouldn't like to have more users-but the slow growth is easier to deal with. Most warez channels that show up will suddenly add 300 users, and a good portion of spamming quickly Smile

splash · none Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 1

Thanks for all the comments here they are most helpful.

We too have started a small network with 3 servers, and are looking for ideas on growing, more so with users rather than servers at this stage however.

Have submitted our network here and will continue to utilise other suggestions.

Mary · SearchIRC Admin Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 692

Hey Splash, Welcome to SearchIRC :)

We just started something a few days ago that I think can help. Submit all of your network help channels, chat channels, game channels, etc, to the Chat Directory. Our ChatDirectory is UNIQUE - there is nothing else like it anywhere on the web. Channel owners add their channels to the directory and we check that channel against our database to be sure its active. If it appears in the network /list and has users, it automatically appears in the ChatDirectory. Since this is something brand new, users are looking -- and there's not much there yet, so its a very good opportunity to get your channels and network noticed.

Also, we're getting about 400,000 page views per week for the Network section. People seem to like to browse around and see what different networks have to offer. Network websites often talk about lack of lag and friendly IRC ops when they invite users to join them, so we try to keep to the network facts when we put information on the network page, services and history pages. If you have popular channels, or custom coded services, encryption or anything else that may attract users, be sure to tell us about it!

SiD · Newbie Joined: 23 Jun 2003 Posts: 60 Location: Australia

Is it worth all the bother? In my opinion NO!

The last people who asked me to link had more servers than chatters, actually they had more Admin/IRCOPs than chatters, they also wanted me to point my domain to their crappy website and change my server name and dump my staff.

Funny thing is they were on my server for 30 minutes and still had to ask what IRCD I was running.

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

You're not alone.

I have 26 servers (ok, well 22 user ones) on my network, and I get networks with 3 or 4 servers that come over, want to merge, want control, want US to use THEIR services, and whatever IRCd they run, and THIER name. Ok, sure, no problem, I'm gonna drop my network and let you run it-and convert 22 servers to your name. Oh, and all of the staff on those servers will go for it to and have no problem with it. Suuuure. The funny thing also is when you say no, they get all offended, cuss you out and leave. I love that when people beg for IRCops too, you tell them no, "well thats good your network sucks!" Well if it sucks, why did you want IRCops on it? Hmm?

Its amazing what people will do sometimes.

Another one I love is the one that comes onto my network and tells me how I should run everything. I usually ask them how many networks they have ran and for how long. "Oh, I don't run networks, just opped in a few channels." That would be like my brain surgeon saying "Well I think I can remove that tumor-I've read a few medical magazines."

Oh well, its entertainment Smile

SiD · Newbie Joined: 23 Jun 2003 Posts: 60 Location: Australia

How about the ones that show up wanting ircops and they know what they're about because they're Services Op at their friends server, Net Admin at another and ircop at a dozen more.. :shock:

I know a few people with multiple olines on differant networks, I'm not sure of the thinking behind this but wouldn't there be a trust/loyalty issue?

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

I have a few people on my staff that do multiple opering. They don't do it to that extent, they just oper on one or 2 other networks.

I've actually had no issues with it-There are only 2 opers that are like this on my network, and both are very loyal, on alot, and will come to me if the other network comes up with stuff that I may find useful (ie, bots to kill fizzer drones). They have helped my network and we have helped them by exchanging such information, no powertrips or anything.

But I also believe this happens because the 2 ops in question are both in their 30's. Nothing against younger people (I'm 28 myself) but I think if they were teenagers I would have issues with them. But being that they are adults, I have no issues.

I do know of opers that oper on 10 different networks, but I have found a way around that-to even apply for opers on my network, you have to have a registered nick for 30 days, or be nominated by an admin for the position. One of the things the application or nomination must include is a list of other networks they oper on. If they don't disclose and we find out about it later, they get immedietely terminated, so most will disclose, and most that list more than a few networks are questioned about why they have so many olines. Usually though most of the ones looking for another oline to add to the long list won't bother with being on for 30 days without an oline, they just move on to the next network that may give it to them instantly Smile

moonman · Lurker Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 212

lots of interesting comments in this thread. i've been running my current server off and on for a couple years, sometimes with and sometimes without, a website backing up the server. usually its just friends of friends hanging out and user count is VERY modest. there are days i wouldn't bother opering if my irc client didn't do it automatically for me. but i get some really strange link requests sometimes. you all know what kind so i wont digress into that. i've always co-admined with someone who was only concerned with linking to as many people as possible no matter who they were, what they knew, or what kind of server/users they brought with them. its not fun opering on a net where i feel the need to hide behind a vhost so the other admins cant see my host to attack. i got out of that immediately, and i've been content doing my own small-time network... er server... now for a while.

Bayou-Ru|er · Posted: Aug 01, 2003 11:38am Post subject:

Well personaly I think its better to keep to your own and not link. I have saw it many times, where linking brings about alot more problems than it does solutions. 9.9 precent of the time it's more about bragging rights than it is service anyway. remember: to many cheifs and not enough indians = problems :wink:

moonman · Lurker Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 212

i'll agree with that completely. although if you can manage to link smoothly to offer your users more channels and new users to interact with, that can be a good thing too.

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

Yeah the only issue is usually when you mesh 2 networks both with people who are 'leading' it, you get arguments over who leads it, or try to share. The sharing lasts till you get differences of opinion and then the issues begin.

I tried it a few times and it didn't work, so I don't do it anymore and probably never will. Its just easier than trying to deal with 2 different groups of people and trying to get them to mesh. Unlike 2 decks of cards, they don't usually just all line up and get in a nice even stack Smile

delta5 · none Joined: 28 Dec 2003 Posts: 5

I have had my share of people coming to me and wanting me to link to their network and they lay a bunch of silly rules on me. Then I find out that they dont even have a real domain. They use DNS2Go or the like.

I started with a handful of people and a windows ircd. I now have a real domain (which i think is very cool), and a professionally done website with all the toys on it. Why would I want to ditch all that just to link to some kiddie-server? lol.

If anyone with a real server (T-1 or above) would like to link to a growing network with common sense being the main rule and easygoing admins, feel free to come to irc.usachat.net and talk to us Smile

SdgNem · none Joined: 22 Oct 2003 Posts: 23

I've did it not once but twice with this one network that I linked to and it was just bad, literally had to bend over backwards long story but I got into a pretty heated discussion about it with a couple of my old IRC friends over it and still in the end the link just did not work out. All I was left with after that was again my friends and it was like that for awhile until about half a year later when we again tried linking with them. It looked like it was going to work out and then just when I thought things were pretty good we exploded delinked. Again, all I was left with were my friends and this time because we had been linked for awhile all the damn services dbs went with the network I was linked to so that made it even more of a mess. There were other links before this one I just talked about but they weren't serious enough and it was with an admin that was on the network that many of my friends and I had our first IRC experience on. So after awhile the usual trouble makers from there and I'll have to admit, even myself, got carried away with a situation that happened and it didn't work, least I was hosting the services.

Does linking with a bigger network work for small networks? I don't know, but I think that it depends on the network administrators that you ask. From my point of view it was a horrible experience and because of these experience I do not think that I will be linking with anyone for a good while unless its someone that I more or less know pretty good and that list isn't very big.

Like its been stated here alot of the time people come and want YOU to link to them. No one wants to lose their domain. They want to come out of no where a network that most of the time just started pretty recently and want you to link to them. Ok, I realize that my network is pretty damn small even though we've been around for awhile. I've gotten offers from people that just started and have more servers/ircops than users and want me to link to them. Nah, I'll pass.

Would I like a network with another network that I haven't really heard about and together we grow to be an average size? Sure it would be nice. Do I want to have it become something like one of the big five? Hell, no. Thats not what I'm after I'd be more than happy to just have a network with about 100-250 users. Again size is something you'd have to ask diferent network administrators about. What some would consider small would be a good deal to another and what some consider average would be something that could possibly be a channel on some network that never got more than 50 ppl in it. I don't know lol, maybe I should stop rambling......... :/

[BK]-Trooper · Guest

See, My network and Subzer0's started out november 1st... I was only planning on mayb 50-75 users.... Now im getting like 160-300..... I didnt plan for that, didnt care how many users, i just wanted to start a kewl network with a kewl name didnt care how big it would get!...

OCIRC Admin
irc.ocirc.net

U · Eleet Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 521 Location: IRC

You should always keep an eye on the future. A 100 user network doesn't use much bandwidth, but when you get higher up you will. Just something to keep in mind if you have admins linking with 5GB/mo limited servers-they will have to outlay more or switch providers if you suddenly get large.

I can understand not paying for more bandwidth than you need, but always keep in mind future expandability when you get a shell provider too Smile

Its easier to get more bandwith with an existing provider than to switch providers, redo DNS, get a new server IP, etc.

I have begun to tell potential links that we consume more than 5GB a month now, and ask if they are willing to absorb more costs if we get bigger-better to get it on the table before they link, than afterwards and lose a server and capacity that may be needed at that point Smile